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| Leyland argues Miggy's 2nd PA ejection of 2013. |
These are Brian Gorman (9)'s first and second ejections of 2013.
Brian Gorman now has 8 points in the UEFL (0 + 2*[2 + 2 Y =8]).
Crew Chief Brian Gorman now has 14 points in the UEFL's Crew Division (12 Previous + 2 Correct Call = 14).
These are the 163rd and 164th ejection of the 2013 MLB season.
This is the 72nd player ejection of 2013. Prior to ejection, Cabrera did not register an at bat and was 0-0.
This is the 80th Manger ejection of 2013.
This is the Tigers' 9th/10th ejection of 2013, 1st in the AL Central (DET 10; CLE 7; CWS 6; KC, MIN 4).
This is Miguel Cabrera's 2nd ejection of 2013 and first since July 28, 2013 (Chad Fairchild; QOC = Correct).
This is Jim Leyland's 4th ejection of 2013 and first since August 17, 2013 (Bob Davidson; QOC = Incorrect).
This is Brian Gorman's first ejection since August 4, 2012 (Clint Hurdle; QOC = Irrecusable).
Wrap: Detroit Tigers vs. Chicago White Sox, 9/9/13
Video: Gorman rules a swing for a dead ball strike; Cabrera tossed mid-AB for the 2nd time this season (DET)
Video: Cabrera discusses the shock at his ejection during a post-game locker room interview (DET)
Related Video: In the 6th, Ramon Santiago strikes out swinging on a slider from Sale that hits him (DET)
61 comments :
Well that's something I certainly never expected to see happen twice in one game.
Two things (deuces wild):
Sale must have a heck of a slider to get two batters to swing on pitches that hit their legs, and
Cabrera must have an express button to ejection to get thrown out for the second time this year and both ejections coming from the plate umpire during the middle of his at bats...
Two things(deuces wild):
You can't appeal a check swing STRIKE, and when you say something about it on the next pitch you have , more then likely, punched your ticket.
All MLB announcers should read this site.
Wow... That seemed like an ejection that could have been avoided. At times it seems umpires forget the line of work they are in. Who cares if Miggy grumbles a bit. He is not grand standing. There are going to be disagreements. But there is no game management skills exhibited here. He gives no leash with Miggy and a long leash with Leyland. Do your job and use your training to try to keep players in the game. Don't be that cop who would pull someone over for going 61 in a 60.
Or the player could have avoided the situation by letting it go after the next pitch was thrown? He was asking for it when he kept arguing after Gorman let him have his say after the pitch that hit him.
You have no idea what was said. If you don't take out the garbage when you are supposed to, you have set the stage for disaster, because everybody else will try to get away with murder. You have to draw a line in the sand and when it gets crossed, an ejection must be made.
I know there are a lot of 'old school' baseball people .. And honestly I think that hurts the advancement of the game. I wish that baseball was lead by and embraced by people like Steve Jobs.
Baseball needs an 'warning ' or ' yellow card ' like system. In no other sport would the best player in the game be rremoved for such a minor incident. In baseball , you are either IN or you are OUT. No technicals or yellow cards. Maybe call Miggy out and not allow him to finish his at bat... I don't know ... But there needs to be some type of intermediate measure for an umpire. And umpires need to get back to the mind set of keeping players in the game by using their training, skills and techniques. Without having a 'dog in the fight'... From the outside looking in... It just looked like Brian could have done more to prevent the ejection. ... And like I said... There is no other sport where a player , especially a GREAT player... Would be removed from the game for what looks like minor incident. Not a good night for the perception of baseball in the middle of a penant race.
Brian Gorman has one of the longest fuses, along with Jim Joyce, when it comes to questioning calls, but not when it comes to the magic words.
If you keep arguing after Brian says "Enough" you are gone. Leyland admitted as much after the game.
I do respect your opinion.. But I hardly see Miggy ' arguing' with Brian. We think like umpires because this is predominantly an umpires' site. So what if Miggy grumbles a bit. This incident turned into a dumpster fire because of the ejection
Miggy did a good job in my opinion of not showing Brian up. Ya.. He was mumbling a bit ... So what... It's a penant race... Not a church service. I defend umpires all day long. I guess I come from the place where I don't need to know what was said. In my opinion Brian could have done more and used more of his training and skill to keep Miggy in the game. Why would Brian seemingly dump Miggy so quickly YET have a really lengthly discussion with Leyland before Jim gets dumped? I don't get it. Sincerely I'm confused. Brian is calm and listens to Leyland but quick triggers Miggy . Sad night for BASEBALL FANS. Both could have done more
Really? You must be watching a different video then. The pitch hits him and Gorman rules a swing. Cabrera gets back in the box and fouls off the next pitch. (At this point Gorman has let it go and it is over) Cabrera then turns around and faces Gorman and keeps jawing at him while standing outside of the batter's box. At that point you don't know what was said by Cabrera, but Gorman does and ejects him for it. Seems pretty cut and dried to me. If Cabrera fouls that next pitch off and gets back in the box and continues his at-bat, he most likely plays a full nine innings.
Oh lord, where do you even start with this one?
there is a warning shut your mouth and don't open it again or you be ejected. you cannot call a batter out cause he didn't like call. his a bat will be finish with someone else. Umpires are not responsible for keeping players in the game that up to them to keep themselfs in the game.
Joey Votto had a similar incident three years ago at Wrigley Field. Great hitters take pride in their craft and sometimes can't believe that they can make themselves look so bad. Gorman got this one right, and Cabrera said the magic words. Nothing else to see here besides a great hitter in disbelief at maybe the worst swing of his career.
You are Thinkin like an Old school baseball person ... It's interesting that there is so much opposition for change in baseball . I watch NBA and players get into arguments with refs about calls ... And they don't Immediateky get ejected or get T'd up. Just a thought ... That's all. Umpires tend to be a very reactionary group who dont adapt to change very well, it seems. What's the difference between soccer and baseball or baseball and football ? Coaches at times go ballistic on the side lines... And what happens ??... The ref either throws a flag and moves the ball down the field or ignores the tirade. It's a culture of the game difference. And what we have been spoon fed to believe. All I am saying is there needs to be a Better way.
You can tell he did not say that .... But like we are trained to be like seals... If he did say 'you' instead of 'the call' ... Yes
Jawing at him ???? Hardly .... You are thinking like an umpire. If I showed the video to someone who is not involved with baseball.. It would not even be considered confrontational .
Like other sports ... It would just be nice if there was some type of intermediate step before ejection.... Then there is no guess work of he said / me might have said .
Disagree 100%. Problem as others noted below is Cabrera's inability to let it go once another pitch has been delivered. Gorman let him have his say on the pitch, after that we have to be done with other pitches in the AB.
"Miguel, I didn't have the best angle. It looked very much like a swing to me, and maybe I could have appealed, but it's over with now. We have already had another pitch. I will take a look at it after the game and we can talk about it tomorrow. Let's just play ball."
That was my point. I was not there I can't read lips but I'm pretty sure there was a you in there somewhere or in miggys case a tu or an usted
I think we umpires should get whistles like basketball and flags like football and cards like soccer. On a minor incident, you give the player a card, unless it was his second minor incident - then you blow the whistle. If there is a close play on the bases you throw the flag (make it red, not wussy yellow like football) which means all the umps have to huddle under a blanket near the bleachers - THAT would make it all better
Cabrera is still waiting for that 2-strike slider...
People not involved with baseball don't determine how situations are handled in pro baseball.
The facts remain that 1) The call was right, and 2) Cabrera could have let it go and didn't. He left it in Gorman's hands and got penalized.
I can almost guarantee that Cabrera was warned by Gorman...then he chose to keep talking. That is an ejection in any sport, whether or not they a 'card system'.
There isn't guess work now. The umpire and the player know exactly what happened. Like someone already told you, the warning to let it go is this "intermediate step" that you want so badly.
You don't follow the NBA much then. I would bet that NBA officials hand out more technicals than any other level of basketball on a per-game basis.
If you want some "intermediate step", then have the rule changed. Don't blame Gorman for a quick trigger or for being "reactionary".
The NBA in its 82-game season this year handed out 1039 technicals during the regular season. Baseball last year had 199 ejections during its 162-game regular season (on pace for less this year).
MLB and NBA each have 30 teams, meaning the NBA plays 1230 games each season while MLB plays 2460. NBA gives out 0.84 technicals per games played or 84 technical fouls per 100 games. MLB gives out 0.08 ejections per games played or 8 ejections per 100 games.
MLB's ejection rate-to-games played is higher than NBA's ejection rate (8.2% to 6.8%), but significantly lower than MLS American soccer's red card or other dismissal rate (27%) and European football's rate (31%).
http://www.closecallsports.com/2012/11/soccer-red-card-fantasy-league-23-games.html
That's what peoples interpretations of not letting it go means ? There was ONE MORE PITCH THROWN ... Big deal... Another ten seconds ... But then gives Leyland 4 minutes to vent before he gets dumped .... Interesting
AnyOne out there referee ice hockey ?? There would be no players or coaches left in the game if the referees did not have a penelty system set up for verbal misconduct that initially excludes complete ejection from the game.
I am not defending Miggy's behavior .. I just seems there
Needs to be a better way. Everyone looses who loves the game of baseball. I was watching the game... And the best 4 hitter in the game is done in the first inning... Chasing the triple crown. In the middle of a penant race. Micheal Jordan, LaBron, Tom Brady, Sydney Crosby would have all been given a intermediate penelty before being ejected for far more than what we see on this video. And if this game is the ALCS... Probably Brian shows more discretion and latitude. And that's not right either....
Has anyone who umpires this game not wished at one time or another that when it came time to be decide to eject a player ... It wasnt all or nothing ???? I know I have...
Why is it that in other sports equally rich in tradition that it typically takes more than one event to be ejected... For verbal misconduct ? A basketball player is not ejected after his or her first technical ... Hockey and football too. It's just a different way of thinking. I do everything I can to keep players and Coaches in the game. Maybe it's from playing and refereeing other high level sports that I think this way. I don't know. And I'm a correctional officer as well... And we cannot react to everything. It's kinda like being Kenny Rogers ' The Gambler ' ... You got to know when to hold'em ...
That's because someone not involved in baseball doesn't understand how the game works. If someone has never been on a professional baseball field, they have no clue how players argue and no one else has any clue what is going on.
Umpires don't eject players. Players eject themselves. Once someone deserves the ejection there is no reason to let them stay in the game.
1. your comparing two different sports 2. not hard to behave yourself 3. your allowing the players to get away with to much 4. your are the one who is control of handle the game.
Oh, well that changes everything, hang on guys he's chasing the triple crown, you know that means he gets a new and different set of rules. Sarcasm off.
Maybe a guy chasing should change his mindset and think about that before each time he opens his mouth.
I to am a CO, and being an inmate is night and day from being a professional athlete. I have never wished for another option once a coach or player has flipped that magic switch.
The conflict is the same ... It's how we handle things and our approach to handling things that is different . And the ejection is NOT nessesatlily handling the game the most effectively
If that situation were to happen in post season I bet Miggy does not get dumped... And that's not right !
Am I the only one on this site that believes that if this situation happens in Post Season... Cabrera doesn't get ejected ??? There is something not right about that.
This is Gormans first Ejection in over a Year and you think he has a quick fuse.
He is a Crew Chief and has dealt with many players, so he knows how to handle situations.
I bet Gorman let Leyland go so long cause Jimmy was asking how the Hell could his Star Player is stupid enough to get throw out twice in middle of at bats! And now I need you to throw my ass out, so he thinks I was protecting Dear Miggy
Can someone please tell me what miggy was saying...In English please.
It's pretty simple. NBA has a lot more thugs than MLB. Those were some pretty interesting stats though.
As I watched this video I started wondering again how good of a ventriloquist Miggy could be. This ejection and the last ejection don't seem like he said much. But he obviously was saying enough to earn ejections by two different umps.
The thing is that he knows what he can say and what he can't say. If you play pro ball at all you should know where that line is.
And players/coaches know very well how to try to get away with it. When I write up an incident report often I use the phrase "intra-bench complaining". The complaining about a call by an umpire to others on the bench disguised as just talking about it but really meant to vocalize to the umpires displeasure with the call. Often used to avoid ejections for unsportsmanlike conduct.
To the average fan who has not been on the field they do not understand how it could be possible for Miggy to have earned his ejection so quickly or so early. To anyone who has not umpired for any amount of time they don't understand how it is possible for someone to be run with just a few words. They think a full blown tantrum is the only way to get tossed. And to the announcers...well, I'm trying to be respectful so I won't go further about those sorry excuses for...sorry, caught myself a little late.
You're exactly correct R@U. Every incident report I have ever had to fill out the only regrets I have had are the ones I tried to keep in the game. They just go too far and by then there will be another one or two that will join them.
Miggy would be smarter than that I hope. This may have been building frustration for Cabrera, he has been hurt and taking a pitch off the knee can't have felt warm and fuzzy.
"Has anyone who umpires this game not wished at one time or another that when it came time to be decide to eject a player ... It wasnt all or nothing ????"
No.
No there not the same. actually the ejection is handling the game as it should keep the game moving. Teaches the player not to do something the umpire already warn you. you don't complain about a call... after the next pitch its already over with.
why does it matter that it's the middle of the pennant race or if he's going after history? you're right, the fans lose, especially those who bought tickets to see miggy play, but whatever he said and i'm guessing him not letting it go got him tossed.
personally, i think gorman got it right. i understand miggy's frustration. you just got hit in the knee, which i know has to hurt like hell, but say your peace then shutup and move on. the at bat wasn't over and neither was the game after that pitch. stand up there and try to get on base,
I can sum this up really easy! THERE IS NO CRYING IN BASEBALL! Miggy was crying 2 pitches later...so Gorman let him take his bat and go home.
Love it!
YOU CAN'T ARGUE BALLS AND STRIKES. I feel like I need to put it in caps to get the point across. Instead of bashing umpires for tossing players "indiscriminately" over this, let's just start tossing everyone who barks even once about a ball/strike call. The players will get the hint after the first team that puts a pitcher at short stop just to finish a game.
So many people come on this site and say nobody pays to watch the umpires. True, but nobody pays to watch Miggy complain either---he owns the triple crown and none of that is for complaining and arguing. Wanna watch a good argument--become a court reporter!
Picking up $scott's argument - it is a good one, but it will go nowhere on this site. Thankfully for those of us that are more new school, these older umpires and fans will be gone soon, and a newer crop will be here that embrace the changing face of the sport and the fan base...it's not going backwards. Hopefully Torre and the powers that be, when looking for umpires to call up, will look at those that will welcome the new technology that will be in place next season and those that are a little better at handling situations. It will be much better for the health of the game and will make it more fan-friendly. I am not sure if it is possible to have an intermediary punishment that does not go all the way to an ejection like a technical foul does in basketball, but I think it is a good conversation starter. Advancing the game is always a good thing. I know I will be flamed by all of the umpires on the board, but the overall health of the game is what all of these conversations should be about!
This isn't an "overall health of the game" website. Its a site dedicated to the rules as they are currently written, application of those rules, and the consequences of breaking those rules and getting ejected website.
The defense used by fans and media saying he's Miguel Cabrera you can't eject him, he's too important in a pennant race, I just can't stand it.
Why should umpires change the way they umpired in April? Why does Cabrera deserve to get a longer leash than your bench player from the Huston Astros? Last I checked the rules are the same in April and September, and no player gets to play by different rules just because of who they are. This is a modern version of discrimination. All players are treated equally,
But on the other hand, if verbal misconduct was an immediate ejection then the majority of it would stop.
Good luck with the whole "The newer umpires will be wishy-washy wimps" idea. Guess who trains these new umpires? It isn't Joe Torre or anyone in the MLB office, the media, or the fans. I'll let you have a guess at that one.
Players who won't let arguments go like this will still be ejected in 10 years. Also, if newer umpires aren't "old school" (Whatever all of this means), why was Alan Porter criticized by you fanboys a few days ago for being confrontational in Oakland when he threw the Astros player out? He's a AAA call-up. Fagan (Another call-up) has the most points in the UEFL this year.
The point I'm trying to get across here is that you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
And as far as "$cott's" arguments goes: There is an intermediate step in baseball. It's called a warning. Heed the warning or risk ejection. Seems pretty simple to me.
Even though you make some good points. But I can't agree with a nebulous statement like "Advancing the game is always a good thing." As you use it, what does "advancing" mean? And what does "good" mean, as you use it?
"Why would Brian seemingly dump Miggy so quickly YET have a really lengthly discussion with Leyland before Jim gets dumped?"
Answer... Cabrera must have said something magical to Gorman. Gorman has a proven track record of not having a lot of ejections and he tried to warn Cabrera who them went back at him a pitch later to complain. No one knows what Cabrera said but him, Gorman, and the catcher. I'm guessing he's not as innocent as he tries to seem. And the fact that this is the second time this year this has happened to him doesn't make him seem any more innocent.
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