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| Murphy's hands are on his head after Umpire Dan Iassogna calls him out. |
Q: This Case Play is worth two points (one for the rule and one for QOC) and expires Saturday, June 29 at 11:59 PM Pacific Time; to secure your Case Play point, be sure to include your username in your reply (or as your posting name).
As in the video above, B1 faces a 3-2 count, but instead there are two outs and the bases are loaded. As such, all runners are off with the pitch; baserunner R3 from third base, due to his proximity to home plate, strolls slowly down the line while R1 and R2 advance to their next bases more quickly. As in the video, B1 checks his swing on a pitch ruled ball four and no swing while catcher F2 throws down to second base and shortstop F6, who, as in the video above, tags R1 after he strays off of second base, resulting in a third out. R3, still, has not touched home plate and only does so after R1 is tagged past second base. Shall the run score; does the fact that R3 was entitled to home plate as a result of the walk have any bearing on the call?
3-2. Checked. Out. They checked and said he did not second. Uh-oh!
ReplyDeletepretty easy... MLB Rule 7.04(b) Comment covers this one with a very similar play. The run scores in theory that all the runner from 3b had to do was touch home. But the 3rd out still counts on the runner at 2nd.
ReplyDeleteMy guess is the run doesn't count. The runners are forced to advance without liability of being put out. Only the batter is awarded a base, not the runners.
ReplyDeleteThe run shall not count because he did not TOUCH home base before the third out was made on a tag play.
ReplyDelete"A run (score) is the score by an offensive player who advances from batter to runner and touches 1st, 2nd, 3rd and home bases in that order."
Rule 7.08(e) and it's comment covers that once the runner touches the base he was forced to, the force is taken away and the runner must be tagged. The comment section gives an example.
Rule 7.05(i) and it's comment states that each runner, including the batter-runner, without liability of being called out, advance one base on a base on balls. The comment states that the runners are still responsible for touching the bases even when given the right to advance without being called out.
The run does score. 7.04(B) comment. The runner who passes the base would be ruled out for the third out. Iassogna handled this to near perfection.
ReplyDeleteThe run would score since he was entitled to home plate.
ReplyDelete7.04(b) Comment: A runner forced to advance without liability to be put out may advance past the base to which he is entitled only at his peril. If such a runner, forced to advance, is put out for the third out before a preceding runner, also forced to advance, touches home plate, the run shall score.
The run would score under rule 7.04. Rule 7.04(b) Comment: A runner forced to advance without liability to be put out may advance past the base to which he is entitled only at his peril. If such a runner, forced to advance, is put out for the third out before a preceding runner, also forced to advance, touches home plate, the run shall score.
ReplyDeleteOne run scores.
ReplyDeleteWill Little just tossed Manny Machado
ReplyDeleteThe run would score. The out by the following runner doesn't change the status of a preceding runner when the play is not a force out for the third out.
ReplyDeleteRun scores due to the pitch being ball 4. All runners are awarded the next base. The out still stands as the third out
ReplyDeleteThe run scores. MLBUM 5.15 states that a runner forced to advance to home without liability to be put out still scores if a following runner is put out while advancing past a forced base.
ReplyDeleteThe run would NOT score, as per rule 4.09(a): One run shall be scored each time a runner legally advances to and touches first, second, third and home base before three men are put out to end the inning. In this case play, the runner did not score before the 3 outs were recorded.
ReplyDeleteThe run would not score. This is a timing play and the base on balls award is for the batter only. All runners must properly touch their bases. I will have to find the rule at a later date.
ReplyDeleteBT_Blue
Run scores. A walk is a base award. Then I have out three and the inning is over. R3 must still touch home plate.
ReplyDeleteCase Play 2013-05; OBR rule 7.04(b) clearly guides us that the run in this case would indeed score on the principle that the runner from third is forced home on the base-on-balls. The runner from first, in his overzealousness is in jeapordy to be put out after touching second base. Thus being tagged off of second base he would be out for the third out.
ReplyDeleteThe run would score without regard to the 'normal' time play directives according to 7.04(b) comment. This case play is almost verbatim in relation to the case play following 7.04(b) comment.
The run scores. It's not a time play, it's an award. As long as the BR advances to first and R3 advances to the plate, we'll score the run. 7.04(b) COMMENT.
ReplyDeleteAlso, from Jaksa/Roder:
EXCEPTION: Time play criteria do not apply to a consecutive runner at
third who is awarded home due to a batter-runner's award to first (BB,
HBP, etc.). All that is required in such a case for the run to score is that
the batter-runner touch first and the runner from third touch home. E.G.:
Bases loaded and two outs, base on balls to the batter. R2 over-runs third
to join in a game-ending celebration, and is tagged out before R3 touches
home: R3 is allowed to score. Due to the award, all that is required for the
run to score is that the batter-runner touch first and R3 touch home.
Yes, the run does score [7.04(b) PLAY]
ReplyDeletegkiewitt
ReplyDeleteRule 7.04(b) A runner forced to advance without liability to be put out may advance past the base to which he is entitled only at his peril. if such runner, forced to advance, is put out for the third out before a preceding runner, also forced to advance, touches home plate, the run shall score.
in this case the run does score.
Yes, the run would count per rule 7-04 that if the batter is entitled to first base, all runners that are therefore forced are entitled to advance one base. See the comment "A runner forced to advance without liability to be put out may advance past the base he is entitled only at his peril. If such a runner ... is put out for the third out before a preceding runner, also forced to advance, touches home plate, the run shall score." A case play describes a similar example, only he overruns third base. Therefore, the run would count.
ReplyDeleteAs for the other question, I'm not sure what it was asking. Is it saying whether the fact that he was entitled to home at all matters, or is it saying does the fact that it was a walk matter? In the first case, the answer is yes - if he were not entitled to home, such as if it were a looping single and they threw behind the runner after he rounded second, the run would NOT count.
In the second question, it depends on the situation. Rule 7:04 b only applies when the batter was allowed to advance without liability, thus forcing the runner off his base, or when a runner is hit by a ball thus making him out, the batter granted first, and forcing the runner to leave his base. However, the latter could not possibly result in a runner being forced home since even if the bases were loaded, one of the runners would be out. However, since all of the others listed under 7-04 entitling a runner to advance would result in a dead ball situation, except for e: it doesn't matter for a, c, or d. The ball is dead, so nobody can be put out.
As for e, when a ball is touched by cap, mask, or equipment, all runners would be entitled to score (since they would at least be on first and get three bases), and the batter would be entitled to advance at least to third. Since this is a live ball situation, it is possible that he could round third and try for an inside the park home run before one or more of the runners touched home plate. If this happened, there is no particular rule covering it, since rule 7-04b's comment only applies to rule 7-04b and not the other parts of the rule. However, the rules also do not explicitly say the run would not count in such a situation. I would invoke rule 9-01c and say that the run would count based on the same principles as 7-04b, but it could also go the other way.
PS: I was at this game, the one Yankees game a year I go to, and it was the craziest play I have seen in person ever.
Run scores. from OBR, comment to 7.04(b)...
ReplyDelete"A runner forced to advance without liability to be put out may advance
past the base to which he is entitled only at his peril. If such a
runner, forced to advance, is put out for the third out before a preceding
runner, also forced to advance, touches home plate, the run will score."
The run would score, and yes the fact that R3 was entitled to home does have bearing on the call. See 7.04(b) comment and play below
ReplyDelete7.04
Each runner, other than the batter, may without liability to be put out, advance one
base when—
(a) There is a balk;
(b) The batter’s advance without liability to be put out forces the runner to vacate his
base, or when the batter hits a fair ball that touches another runner or the umpire
before such ball has been touched by, or has passed a fielder, if the runner is forced
to advance;
Rule 7.04(b) Comment: A runner forced to advance without liability to be put out may
advance past the base to which he is entitled only at his peril. If such a runner, forced to advance, is put out for the third out before a preceding runner, also forced to advance, touches home plate, the run shall score.
Play. Two out, bases full, batter walks but runner from second is overzealous and runs past
third base toward home and is tagged out on a throw by the catcher. Even though two are out, the runwould score on the theory that the run was forced home by the base on balls and that all the runners needed to do was proceed and touch the next base.
Score the run.
ReplyDeleteR3 is entitled to score due to the walk and "should" score before a following runner is tagged out for advancing past their award base. The fact that he does not in this case has no bearing on his run.
- ump_24
In this hypothetical situation the run would count based on Rule 7.04(b) Comment: A runner forced to advance without liability to be put out
ReplyDeletemay advance past the base to which he is entitled only at his peril. If such a
runner, forced to advance, is put out for the third out before a preceding
runner, also forced to advance, touches home plate, the run shall score. Therefore, no matter where R3 is, his run would count.
Run scores. Award of home is enforced without regard to play at 2nd. This may be a case play in MLBUM, but I don't have time to look right now.
ReplyDelete