1B Umpire Marvin Hudson ejected Nationals Manager Davey Johnson for arguing a safe call in the bottom of the 6th inning of the Nationals-Braves game. With none out and none on, Braves batter Martin Prado hit a 3-2 fastball from Nationals pitcher Edwin Jackson, who fielded and threw to first baseman Adam LaRoche. Replays indicate LaRoche caught the throw and legally tagged first base with his left foot in contact with the bag prior to Prado's arrival, the call was incorrect. At the time of the ejection, the Nationals were leading, 4-2. The Braves ultimately won the contest, 5-4.
This is Marvin Hudson (51)'s second ejection of 2012.
Marvin Hudson now has 2 points in the UEFL (4 Previous + 2 MLB + -4 Incorrect Call = 2).
Crew Chief Fieldin Culbreth now has 0 points in the UEFL's Crew Division (0 Previous + 0 Incorrect = 0).
This is Marvin Hudson (51)'s second ejection of 2012.
Marvin Hudson now has 2 points in the UEFL (4 Previous + 2 MLB + -4 Incorrect Call = 2).
Crew Chief Fieldin Culbreth now has 0 points in the UEFL's Crew Division (0 Previous + 0 Incorrect = 0).
UEFL Standings Update
This is the 167th ejection of 2012.
This is the 76th Manager ejection of 2012.
This is the Nationals' 4th ejection of 2012, T-2nd in the NL East (NYM 8; ATL, MIA, WSH 4; PHI 3).
This is Davey Johnson's first ejection of 2012 and first since August 28, 2011 (Joe West; QOC = Incorrect).
This is Marvin Hudson's first ejection since April 29 (Jordan Shafer; QOC = Correct).
This is the 167th ejection of 2012.
This is the 76th Manager ejection of 2012.
This is the Nationals' 4th ejection of 2012, T-2nd in the NL East (NYM 8; ATL, MIA, WSH 4; PHI 3).
This is Davey Johnson's first ejection of 2012 and first since August 28, 2011 (Joe West; QOC = Incorrect).
This is Marvin Hudson's first ejection since April 29 (Jordan Shafer; QOC = Correct).
Hudson is a good ump- but i think he just flat missed it- i know thats the position at first that he has to be in to make a out/safe call at first, but we have seen some trouble from umps making a call like this late in games- Brian Knight's ejection of Eric Wedge (tied in extras)
ReplyDeleteIts tough to see if there is separation from LaRoche's foot and the bad from where Marvin is.
Why does Hudson generate a controversial call when he did not have the angle? This is fairly routine with an extra stretch. Why assume LaRoche pulled his foot? Because that is the only justification he can possibly give. Don't waste my time claiming he must have seen some dirt between the foot and the base because he had no angle to possibly do that.
ReplyDeleteCan someone tell me why Hudson wouldn't ask for help here? Is it just ego? He knew he was not in position.
ReplyDeleteI know everyone teaches 90 degrees from the throw but it just doesn't make sense to go more than a couple steps off the line. Even on a throw from the catcher, the first baseman is taking the throw with his foot on one side of the bag or the other; not the front.
ReplyDeleteThe home plate ump could have helped but Hudson refused to ask. My problem is how unlike football umps refuse to help partners without request. in football they meet all the time.
ReplyDeleteHe was too busy doing the double arm-cross with his thumbs up to worry about getting the call right....way too arrogant. Get together and get the call right. If they refuse to go for help, hopefully instant replay will finally come to baseball.
ReplyDelete.Hudson clearly screwed up here. He should have asked the HP umpire for help. If this keeps up, instant replay will HAVE to come to safe or out calls.
ReplyDeleteI understand he kicked this call, but why is he gonna ask for help? He was right there and in his mind he had it right. So you get together with another umpire and he says he saw something different, well what if he is wrong? w saw an example in football the other day when they picked up the flag but the initial call was correct. Until baseball uses replay for everything your stuck with one mans opinion on almost all calls.
ReplyDeleteRoutine out. Hudson totally blew it.
ReplyDeleteWhy guess that he pulled his foot?? How about moving to adjust to the angle.....not Marvin....strictly an "x" umpire. Go to the "x" and make the call. And I'm sure he expects to be an LCS umpire This year..... Hey Marv, we haven't forgotten Cleveland when you should have lost the protest.....,appeal play is a time play......don't wave off the run!!!
ReplyDeleteThe HP umpire is to immediately overrule a pulled foot call just like was recently done in another game, and was lauded by everyone including supervision. Since a prior memo (before it happened previously) must have been put out for the HP umpire to immediately rectify the situation without so much as a request for help from the base umpire, no idea why it was not done in this case. Since nobody was on base to start this play, look at that home plate umpire at .07 busting his rear to get right at the 45 foot line, beside the catcher, watching intently and observing the foot to see whether the fielder was on the bag or not. He must not have received the memo to immediately help his partner without a request, or he thought from his position at the 45 foot line, that the fielder was off the bag also. No need to overrule immediately, like the other game, if you have the same call.
ReplyDeleteanon 500 am
ReplyDeleteThe play earlier where the HP ump ''overruled"
the 1st base ump was a disaster.The announcers even made the comment that they had never seen that mechanic before and they were correct because the reason that they had never seen it was because the plate umpire F'ed it up. No mechanic exists for what he did when he changed the call without the 1st base umpire asking for his assistance. I guarantee you he will never offer his assistance again until he is asked by his partner. Umpiring 101, no other umpire can overrule another umpire at any time unless the umpire who makes the initial call asks for help. Marvin made the call, did not think that he needed to ask for help, so he didnt. End of story.
Anon 6:15..I would have to disagree.
ReplyDeleteThere was a supervisor in town during that game and I can tell you that it was applauded at the supervisory level and no one, including some high top guys, had anything negative to say.
If you're sure what you see then go for it, it saved about 3 or 4 minutes and they got the call right when that happened.
Boo hoo for the nationals, they still lead the division by like 7 games, although this call did change the complexion of the game it wasn't like jerry meals in the yankees-orioles
ReplyDeleteAnon at 6:42. As long as that supervisor in town for this game, had immediately overturned his partner's incorrect calls each and every time on a pulled foot throughout his career, without ever waiting for his partner to ask, then I applaud this umpire who copied this supervisor's way of handling this type of situation. If this is not how this supervisor handled this exact situation each and every time during his career, then I think this was handled incorrectly and he should have waited for his partner to ask for help.
ReplyDeleteSince umpires are now told to jump in and overturn their partners calls, the umpire making the original call no longer needs to have the manager come out and ask or even ask himself before the manager gets their. If the partner does not immediately overturn the call without asking, the calling umpire knows the call is all his to live and die with and argue with the manager.
Joe Gravina vs. Anon at 6:42 - Old school vs new school. For the longest time, umpires (in a 4 man system) were instructed NOT to get help on this type of play (ie. one runner, one play - this was ONLY the 1B umpire's call). The reasoning was a MLB umpire should have the ability to read the throw and make the necessary adjustments to get the call right by himself... and not to rely on a partner for help. I understand this line of thinking, however, in this day and age with multiple camera angles, super slow motion HD replay, etc., the time has come to change this philosophy or suffer the Welke rath of being the lead story of SportsCenter.
ReplyDeleteNew school line of thinking is that this play is still the 1B umpire's call 99% of the time and he should NOT rely on the HP umpire for help...BUT, there will be a time or two that the 1B umpire (right or wrong) will have a bad angle on the play and should go for help if needed. Hudson, like Welke, made no adjustment on the throw and consequently, got straightlined on the play (MISTAKE #1). Now, the "house is burning down", an irate Manager is asking that you get help on the play and he takes the old school philosophy and refuses to go for help (MISTAKE #2). To add fuel onto the fire, HP umpire Marty Foster makes little effort to trail the play up the 1B line and thus is not in a very good spot to offer any help even if Hudson would have asked (Mistake #3).
The result of these three errors (by two MLB Umpires) on one play and the fact that it is going to be replayed on National TV over and over again for the next 24+ hours, makes ALL of us look really bad. Regardless if you're thinking is old school or new school, you should strongly consider using your partners on those 1% of the plays or be stubborn and watch replays of yourself making wrong call over & over again.
A few weeks ago, Davey Johnson joked that he would pick te right day to be ejected
ReplyDelete"Marvin made the call, did not think that he needed to ask for help, so he didnt. End of story.
ReplyDeleteAnd therein lies the problem. Hudson is so secure in his own infallibility that he did not recognize his angle was poor, that hp had the best view of the foot and bag, and that perhaps he should conference. In other words, his mind just could not make room for the possibility that he was wrong.
I don't criticize Hudson for blowing the call. It happens. I criticize him for letting his little ego prevent him from taking the steps necessary to correct it.
@ ANON 5:00a
ReplyDelete9.02(c) No umpire shall criticize, seek to
reverse or interfere with another umpire’s decision unless asked to do so by the
umpire making it.
If, in fact, as you state, a 'memo' was sent out directing otherwise, this memo would be in direct violation of the official MLB rules, therefore would cause even more arguments from players/managers and would as well set up a basis for a game to be protested.
joe maddon just got ejected by paul emmel after he issued warning
ReplyDeleteCurt Crowley - September 16, 2012 10:04 AM: WELL SAID!
ReplyDeleteemmel being emmel!!
ReplyDeleteANON September 16, 2012 10:23 AM:
ReplyDeleteThe memo was meant to address RARE instances where the HP umpire is 110% certain that the 1B umpire did not see a crucial element of the play. It's a directive aimed at minimizing controversy by ensuring the proper call is made without prolonged discussions and/or ejections. If you work games that are televised by major broadcast outlets that utilize multiple camera angles and slow motion replay, you understand why the memo was sent out. Basically, they don't want to prevent obvious blown calls that embarras both the league and the umpires
ANON - September 16, 2012 11:45 AM:
ReplyDeleteNo, its Maddon being Maddon. Emmell took his mask off and told him to knock it off. Maddon kept popping off, so Emmell ran him.
Some Managers get longer leashes then others... Maddon is NOT one of them.
If only we had a way to quickly check if he had his foot on the base.....
ReplyDeleteOh well, someday the technology may exist.
Anon 10:23
ReplyDeleteSo there was a memo on this after all, huh. Did the memo come out before the recent pulled foot call where the home plate umpire immediately overturned the call before the BU even thought about asking for help? Then that was just a regular obvious ho hum call correctly done by the recent memo. It was not some kind of great out of the norm instinctual call.
Since Foster did not immediately overturn this call knowing that Hudson was 110% wrong, which should be the formula for any overturned call, there was no need for Hudson to go ask for help. No overturn by the partner without asking for help=no reason to go ask for help to start with.
ANON September 16, 2012 4:42 PM: Despite the hint of sarcasm, your point is well taken. The powers at be need to establish a protocol on how to handle these "rare" type plays and follow it one way or another.
ReplyDeleteWith that said, the play you mentioned was different because the plate umpire, Scott Barry, hustled his butt up the line (past the 45 ft lane) and was in perfect position to see the play. I don't necessarily agree with the way he went about it but I think it had more to do with a full-time MLB umpire trying to protect a AAA fill-in from getting into a sh!thouse.
Foster, on the other hand, chose to stay around the plate and clear his indicator rather than following the play up the 1B line. Despite his poor positioning, he still should have been able to see the first baseman hold the base...and if he didn't, shame on him for not doing his job. Yes, I know Hudson should have worked a little harder to not get straightlined, but Foster should also take some of the heat for not hustling.
Bottom line, 3 mistakes on one play by 2 seasoned MLB umpires is unacceptable and could have been avoided. Instant replay can not come soon enough...
I would think a guy 6'7" can take care of himself, with no sarcasm intended. The supervisors need to see how he handles himself in situations like this before possibly rewarding him with a future FT position. The manager would just come out and ask if he would get help. If he gets help from Barry (and the supervisor may/may not approve in his report), the call will get changed. He may/may not have to eject the offensive manager, but that comes with the territory. If he wants to eat the call without help (and the supervisor may/may not approve in his report), he may/may not have to eject the defensive manager and that also goes with the territory. One way he gets the call correct in the end, the other way he does not and he gets evaluated by the supervisor on both the handling of the call and on handling the manager/s possible dispute after the call.
ReplyDeleteYes, I also agree the proto-call should be one way or the other. If the memo says for HP to immediately over-rule, then over-rule and the managers know not to even ask for help. However, if they go immediately to the umpire who does not over-rule and start to argue, the original calling umpire should come down and take over the argument.
Bottom line, 26 years experience and 4 DS says it all in the eyes of the supervisors. Looks like they are being evaluated on things like their calls, hustle, positioning, etc., etc. for anyone who thinks otherwise out there.
For those of you saying there is no directive for a HP Umpire overruling a 1B Umpire without that Umpire asking, I am not so sure. Bill Miller just overruled CB Bucknor immediatly after a pulled foot call. 1B Umpire Bucknor called the runner safe and HP Umpire Miller immediatly called the runner out. The difference between this and the Barry-Baker situation is Miller at least talked to Bucknor before overruling him, but Bucknor did not ask for this help. This is the second time we have seen a HP Umpire overrule in this fashion. I am really starting to think this is a directive because of the Tim Welke play.People often talk badly about him but it looks like Bucknor was correct originally. However, it is possible Miller got the runner for giving up his right to first base. The runner was called safe but didn't realize it so he went to the dugout, it was a Picher Tim Hudson. What should the call be in a situation like that?
ReplyDeletespot umpire.... making a spot call. no reason to be at 90 on this one.
ReplyDelete