HP Umpire Brian Gorman ejected Pirates Manager Clint Hurdle for arguing warnings in the top of the 2nd inning of the Pirates-Reds game. With two out and none on, Pirates batter Josh Harrison was hit by a 1-1 fastball from Reds pitcher Mike Leake, resulting in a bench warning incident. Replays indicate the pitch was located inside and the hit by pitch designation was proper, the call is irrecusable. On Friday, Pirates outfielder Andrew McCutchen was hit by an Aroldis Chapman pitch. At the time of the ejection, the Reds were leading, 2-1. The Reds ultimately won the contest, 5-4.
This is Brian Gorman (9)'s second ejection of 2012.
Brian Gorman now has 0 points in the UEFL (-2 Previous + 2 MLB + 0 Irrecusable Call = 0).
Crew Chief Brian Gorman now has 5 points in the Crew Division (4 Previous + 1 Irrecusable Call = 5).
UEFL Standings Update
This is the 106th ejection of 2012.
This is the 53rd Manager ejection of 2012.
This is Clint Hurdle's first ejection since June 24 (Marty Foster; QOC = Correct).
This is Brian Gorman's first ejection since July 17 (Lance Berkman; QOC = Incorrect).
This is the Pirates' 4th ejection of 2012, T-2nd in the NL Central (MIL 5; HOU, PIT 4; CHC, STL 3; CIN 2).
Wrap: Pirates at Reds, 8/4/12
Video: After an early HBP with words exchanged, Gorman issues warnings, resulting in Hurdle's ejection
This is Brian Gorman (9)'s second ejection of 2012.
Brian Gorman now has 0 points in the UEFL (-2 Previous + 2 MLB + 0 Irrecusable Call = 0).
Crew Chief Brian Gorman now has 5 points in the Crew Division (4 Previous + 1 Irrecusable Call = 5).
UEFL Standings Update
This is the 106th ejection of 2012.
This is the 53rd Manager ejection of 2012.
This is Clint Hurdle's first ejection since June 24 (Marty Foster; QOC = Correct).
This is Brian Gorman's first ejection since July 17 (Lance Berkman; QOC = Incorrect).
This is the Pirates' 4th ejection of 2012, T-2nd in the NL Central (MIL 5; HOU, PIT 4; CHC, STL 3; CIN 2).
Wrap: Pirates at Reds, 8/4/12
Video: After an early HBP with words exchanged, Gorman issues warnings, resulting in Hurdle's ejection
Two ejections by Gorman in less than twenty days, who would've thought it possible? And since there were warnings issued, there's certainly the potential for more EJ's in the game.
ReplyDeleteIts unfortunate that the Pirates are also warned- they have not hit anybody in the series- Chapman hit McCutchen last night and now Leake hits Harrioson and they worn BOTH benches!!! Its what the umpires are supposed to do but its a controversial rule!
ReplyDeleteHaven't seen the video yet, but the write-up states that the benches cleared. I'm guessing that when the benches empty, if a warning hasn't already been issued, it almost certainly will be. However, it's true that this situation didn't work out very fairly for the Pirates.
ReplyDeleteGorman did the right thing. Before the ejection, he told Hurdle "This is going to stop now!" He was doing preventitive umpiring, and not letting the game get out of control.
ReplyDeleteVideo of McCutchen HBP from last night: http://mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=23604041&c_id=mlb
ReplyDeleteI'm honestly surprised warnings weren't issued at the beginning of the game. I was watching the Pittsburgh broadcast and noticed several things.
First, Leake approaches Harrison and starts waving him down to first base.
Second, I didn't see the benches clear.
Third, and this is coming from a Pirate fan, the announcers get absolutely terrible, so if the MLB clip ends up being the Pittsburgh broadcast, you've been warned.
@Anon 5:23: How is it controversial? I'm wondering why both benches weren't warned to begin with. After McCutchen's reaction after the game last night (which I'm sure the umpires know about) it's the right call to stop this before it starts.
This is the most heated I have ever seen Brian Gorman. Hurdle was yelling and he was giving it right back to him. Good call by Gorman on the warnings but I can also understand Clint's point here. They got thrown at twice in two days and don't hit anybody yet they get warned. I still like the call by Gorman because he doensn't want anymore of this crap. For those of you who haven't seen video yet,Bob Davidson came in to break up the argument
ReplyDeleteFor the author of this, the benches did not clear. Hurdle argued whether warnings should have been issued. The Reds announcers also didn't like the warnings but were much more civil about it, probably because their Manager didn't get tossed. Chris Welsh even did his UEFL research. He knew that Lance Berkman was Gorman's only ejection this year and also knew he didn't have any ejections for a few seasons before that. I wish more announcers knew the Umpires like Welsh did in this instance. It was really nice to hear.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion Clint is also trying to fire up the Pirates. This is a big series for them if the want to get closer to the first place Reds despite being leaders in the NL wildcard.
ReplyDelete@ Russ 5:38 I agree with you. Also did you see yesterday when Marty Brenneman (reds radio play by play announcer) shaved his head because he said if the reds won 10 in a row he would shave his head.
ReplyDeleteGorman tried preventative umpiring after the 2nd HBP of the series and after Leake further escalated the situation by walking off the mound towards Harrison. That's far too late to be preventative. Gorman could have stopped a lot of this by warning the managers before the game, but he apparently didn't do that since he didn't eject Leake.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, he shouldn't have had to do any preventative umpiring at all. Unfortunately, professional athletes are emotionally on par with children, and think hurling objects at each other's heads at dangerous velocities is okay because "he did it first!"
ReplyDeletehttp://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120804&content_id=36126174&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb
ReplyDeleteThis makes no sense, Common Gorman!!!! Pirates announcers are confused.
THE CALL IS irrecusable. It should be ridiculous
Gorman has more ejections than Nauert and Runge combined, and their last ejections was 2009 i think or 2008
ReplyDelete@Bryan Zegers: Just what is ridiculous about this call?
ReplyDelete@BAPA, if this wasn't a common occurence in baseball and if Gorman hadn't been on the field last night, I'd agree with you. But he was at first when McCutchen was hit by Chapman last night and he knew (or at least should have known) tempers would be high tonight. Gorman's job was to defuse this before the first pitch by making it clear that nothing that could even be construed as beaning would be tolerated. He didn't do it, and instead it just looks as if he's protecting the Reds but not the Pirates. Gorman's been around a long time, he should know that ballplayers and, sadly, managers are childish. He did not handle this well at all.
ReplyDeleteGorman should have done the warning at the pregame meeting if not then you only give the warning to the Reds hitting 2 batters in last 3 innings going back to last night.Pirates didn't even throw close to anyone. Gorman is having a horrrible series. He missed a call at home last night when he was out of position. Replay showed Heisey was out at home. Tonight his strike zone was terrible.
ReplyDeleteHSU,
ReplyDeleteBob Davidson was the home plate umpire last night. They rotate during the series.
Who would've thought Gorman would have more ejections than Joe West and Angel Hernandez combined, I certainly wouldn't. At the end of the argument Hurdle says to Gorman "You're a b*&^#" Stay classy Clint!
ReplyDelete@anon 7:29, while it is true Davidson was behind the Plate yesterday, on the inside the park Homer, because of rotations, Gorman covered Home and made the safe call on that play. However, I have watched the replay of that play and Gorman was not out of position and I can not say for sure whether he made the right call or not because there is no definitive camera angle. I am going to just asume High School Umpire is an angry Pirates fan.
ReplyDelete@ Anon 7:07
ReplyDeleteNauert and Runge both had their last ejection in 2010. Nauert debuted in 1995 (though not appearing in 2000 or 2001) and has 22 ejections. Runge debuted in 1999 and has only 9! Gorman has been umpiring in the bigs since 1991, with 43 (now 45) ejections. Data derived from Retrosheet.
No not an angry fan. When I went to an Umpire camp a few years ago we were taught to make a call at home that you should be on the 3rd base extended foul line this way you can see swipe tags.Being in that position would have been better than making the call from the1st base side on that rotation.
ReplyDeleteVideo's up gents:
ReplyDeletehttp://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=23618687&c_id=mlb
@Anon 7:21: I think we actually agree mostly. I already said warnings should have been issued at the beginning of this game due to McCutchen's post-game outburst yesterday. But since they weren't, issuing them here was correct. Regardless of how it looked, it was the right call to make.
ReplyDelete@Russ: For the record, I'm a Pirate fan and I agree with you. I have seen no conclusive replay of that call, and my initial real-time reaction was the same as the umpire's on-field call of "safe".
@High School Umpire: If you have a replay or still frame that conclusively shows he was out, please share it.
@Mark: They actually went with the Pirates' feed... Mute starting at about 0:35 if you don't want to get a headache.
Gorman may have said something during the pre-game conference, we will never know. You know, just some advice about what he will put up with. Then with the HPB, he laid down the law that it will not be tolerated. Umpires know when tempers are flaring, and they try to defuse it before it goes beyond what is acceptable. No ejections in almost 3 years and only 43 or so in 20 years of umpiring, that is a remarkable record.
ReplyDelete@BAPA COP http://twitpic.com/af4vw4
ReplyDeleteRuss: For those of you who haven't seen video yet,Bob Davidson came in to break up the argument
ReplyDeleteDavidson was like a kibbitzer at a card game. Standing next to Gorman and playing with his chain around his neck.
@ Mundane
ReplyDeleteTrue, but just the fact that Davidson was able to stand there and remain calm is a shocker.
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ReplyDeletehttp://pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2012_08_04_pitmlb_cinmlb_1&mode=recap&c_id=pit
ReplyDeleteApparently, at least part of Hurdle's argument to Gorman was "let the players play".
My hats off to Bob "Balkin" Davidson for staying calm and not including himself in the argument. I guess the suspension earlier this year woke him up.
ReplyDeleteAs for Norman, pick your battles. At least let the other team get some pay back before issuing warnings! Let the players police themselves!
Why did Gorman insert himself into this situation by warning both benches when the Pirates had done nothing but get beaned? The game is about the players and teams and not the effing umps who seem to want to make it about themselves constantly. It will be worked out between the teams sooner or later - now later thanks to Gorman's boneheadedness - and hopefully the bench clearly brawl this could easily result in will not end up injuring too many players - the players btw that fans watch the games to see. Does Gorman live in a bubble? Let the Pirates knock down a Red and then we can get on with the pennant race and put this behind us. This will only get worse and Gorman has contributed to that by his actions. This is not H.S. these are professional athletes and they know what the unwritten code is - let them play. Get the hell out of the way umps.
ReplyDelete@Anon 11:45: First, his name is Gorman. Second, Gorman did pick his battle, and he did so correctly. The umpires are not there to "let the players police themselves", they are there to enforce the rules. Gorman did so and he did so correctly.
ReplyDelete@Anon 12:09: I normally try to refrain from writing things like this, but what the f*** is wrong with you? Gorman "inserted" himself into the situation by doing his job. He realized that the Pirates were probably going to try to hit someone and he stopped that before it happened. As the home plate umpire that is his job. It is not "boneheadedness". IT IS HIS JOB. It is NOT his job to enforce any sort of "unwritten code". Only the written one known as the rulebook. How is doing his job making it about himself? IT ISN'T.
Gorman did exactly what he was supposed to do in this situation. But apparently you anons are just too stupid to figure that out. You're as childish as the players are.
"Let the players police themselves!" -- Amen!
ReplyDelete@Anon 12:35: All right, let's let the players police themselves. Next time there's a close play at first the umpire won't say anything, and instead we'll let the teams figure out whether or not he was safe or out. I'm sure that'll end well.
ReplyDeleteBAPACop, the players police themselves regardless. More so than not. The pitch was not at his head, etc. It was a bit inside. The pitcher forwarding himself towards the batter afterwards should have been thrown out. Or at least warned. The batter-runner yelled at the pitcher but POLICED himself to keep on walking to 1st base. This kind of stuff is destined to happen as the season wears on due to the Pirates being a serious contender. I give complete respect to the umpires in their decision. And who knows it may have been said prior to this in the ground rules before the game. And it very likely was. Otherwise this would not have happened. I am just a believer in letting the players police as much as they can without the umpires getting involved outright. The pirates announcers are so excited that they are in contention for post season play that they get out of hand with their outrageous comments. Granted, they are biased by default. As it should be.
ReplyDeleteWith complete respect. :)
@Anon 1:07: There's a difference between policing themselves by avoiding an action and policing themselves performing an action. Policing themselves by not charging the mound is the former, and is okay. Policing themselves by hitting another player with a pitch (to "even the score" or whatever) is the latter is not okay and needs to be stopped before it happens.
ReplyDeleteAnd I understand the Pirates announcers are biased, but I expected more of them. I mean, I'm a Pirate fan and I had to turn the broadcast off because I was sick of listening to them. That says something about how bad they got.
Well a close play at first is exactly what the umpires should be policing. And they do an amazingly good job at it even though there are sometimes glaring mistakes made (i.e. Jerry Meals call at home last year). I'm sure it's a very tough and thankless job and hopefully we'll have expanded instant replay to eliminate the occasional error. But, as a fan, I don't like them preemptively trying to control things like this situation - like this is Minority Report or something - someone might do something so we have to stop that somehow.
ReplyDeleteAnd maybe the players are immature about it. Having your best player and a certain mvp candidate drilled with a 100 fastball that could easily have killed or maimed him had it been 6 inches higher does bring out the immaturity I guess.
I'm sure Gorman was doing what he's supposed to do as directed by the mlb and the rule book but to my mind the game is much bigger than the mere rules. And this situation will probably escalate now that he's drawn the line in the sand and the whole situation puts one team at a competitive disadvantage because of micromanagement. Again if his hands are tied in this situation he's only doing what he had to but to me the scales are out of balance and justice is coming nevertheless. Hopefully it won't be a total mess when it finally breaks.
I'm wondering what magic word Hurdle said that got himself tossed out - there must be a list in the rule book because umps don't enforce unwritten rules.
@Anon 1:47: Unfortunately for fans like you, the rule book gives the umpires the responsibility for stopping things before they happen. This is what Rule 8.02 is for. As a fan myself, I don't feel my pitchers should be hitting anyone anyway, so it doesn't matter. If they hit someone, they're either trying to or they're probably throwing so wildly that they're not going to be effective in finding the strike zone and I don't really care that they get thrown out of the game.
ReplyDeleteHaving your best player get hit can certainly make you upset. I understand that. But it's the whole "he hit our player so we get to hit one of his" thing that gives me the mental image of two kids "he's touching me!" and "but DAD he did it first" and so finally the parent has to send them to their rooms.
I don't see how this puts anyone at a disadvantage. Neither team was allowed to hit anyone anymore. That means BOTH teams theoretically "lose" the inside part of the plate. If anything, the Pirates actually get an advantage, as they got a free base runner out of the deal.
As for the "magic words", it's not a list but it is in the rule book. 9.01d: "Each umpire has authority to disqualify any player, coach, manager, or substitute for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct or language, and to eject such disqualified person from the playing field." The definition of unsportsmanlike conduct is at the umpire's discretion here and therefore does not require a list.
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ReplyDeleteFor many years, MLB baseball (& thier umpires) have allowed the game to "police itself". A couple years ago, MLB decided that when in comes to beanballs, this type of "thinking" or behavior needed to stop ASAP. Therefore, they instructed their umpires to be more preventive and issue warnings BEFORE the "retaliation" measures take place. While people may disagree with this "new" line of thinking, MLB Umpires are just doing what they have been instructed to do by thier "boss".
ReplyDeleteAs for the pregame warnings, that decision involves approval/clearance from MLB (ie, its not something that each crew can arbitrarily decide upon). I can guarentee(sp?) you that this WAS discussed at great length but it was decided to NOT "intervene" prior to the game. However, I'm sure that the players were on a "short" leash and if anything happened that could provoke a retailiation, then warnings are to be issued immediately, for BOTH teams. Fair or not fair (and I agree with Hurdle's beef), Gorman was just doing what his superiors directed him to do (regarless of what his, yours or anyone else's personal feelings - right or wrong, may be.
As for Anon 12:09 - his opinion is classic "old school" thinking and its obvious he has no clue on the newer directives by MLB. Anon 12:09 is no different than Chicago broadcaster Hawk Harrelson, who publically lambasted Mark Wegner for "prematurely" issuing warnings. After a "stern" meeting with MLB, Bud Selig "educated" Hawk of MLB's new policy RE: beanballs and Harrelson shortly after apologized for wrongly criicizing Wegner
ReplyDeleteIf he believes the beanball was intentional, he should have ejected the pitcher and manager on the spot. No need for warnings; he can do it right away.
ReplyDeleteSo now Dusty is going to be pissed off at the world directed at the Pirates now, huh? Who doesn't hate the Reds?
Mike
ReplyDeleteIm sure I dont speak for everyone but the reds are much more likeable than the cardinals. I'm a brewer fan. I hope it comes down to the reds and pirates in the end. I dont mind both teams. Hopefully the brewers are back in it next year though.
Mike - warnings are sometimes issued for not just what occurred but what might occur as a result of what just happened. After two pirate hitters got beaned (purposely or not), Gorman probably figured that Pittsburgh was inevitably going to retailiate against the Reds. Although he did not know if last nights or the previous nite's actions were on purpose, he did know that if he did NOT issue warnings, the Pirates were going to immediately retaliate after two of their hitters got plunked. Per MLB directives, Gorman issued warnings to PREVENT things from going any further. Don't shoot the messenger on this - Gorman is just covering his own a$$. In the past, umpires would just let the Pirates hit one of the Reds players and then issue warnings. However, MLB does not want this going on any more so "the eye for an eye" thing is no longer. The league wants to err on the side of caution when it comes to beanballs so whether you agree with the philosophy or not, Gorman's hands are tied and he must do what the MLB has instructed him to do.
ReplyDeletekickersrule, I understand everybody in the Central hates the Cardinals. It's because the Cardinals are competitive year in and year out and nobody else comes close. I don't hear Nyger spouting off this year...
ReplyDeleteI mean, just look at the standings, the Cardinals are having a "bad year" and they still have a chance at making the playoffs.
Right now I am having a hard time. Root for the Pirates so they can hopefully beat the Reds for the division? Or root for the Pirates to lose to give the Cardinals a chance?
Don't worry.. if the Pirates ever offend Reds player in any form the remainder of Dusty's career, he'll remember this series and blame the Pirates heavily for it.
@ Anon 12:09
ReplyDeleteAre you kidding me? Your comment completely falls apart when you acknowledge that this easily could lead to a "bench clearly brawl." I don't believe that Gorman would care to deal with a benches-clearing episode.
The only things this rule does is delay the retaliation. I would expect that a Reds batter will be intentionally plunked today.
ReplyDeleteJoe West has run Leyland, I believe Holbrook tossed Gerald Laird.
ReplyDeleteWaiting for the video replay on the West ejections. Tigers radio announcers are saying incorrect call at first base.
ReplyDeleteIt was close but the call appeared incorrect. Also, the TV announcers said West was pointing his finger in the Tigers dugout.
ReplyDeleteOn Twitter: Verlander was warned (possibly ejected), then Leyland ejected. Apparently Laird made it to the dugout before any ejections/warnings. Sounds like regular Joe West.
ReplyDeleteYes, Laird was ejected from the dugout by Holbrook and appeared quite surprised. Watching it live, I almost thought I could see Laird saying that he hadn't said anything.
ReplyDeleteAgain Gorman out of position @ 3rd missed another call. He is having an awful series
ReplyDelete+1 to Gorman for taking the time to walk over and explain the warning to Hurdle and to listen to what Hurdle had to say. We've seen managers get ejected as soon as they come out of the dugout on warnings. Gorman did a good job.
ReplyDelete+2 to Bob Davidson for not jumping in the middle of this fight and doing the roadhouse bouncer routine advocated by so many commenters in previous ejections.
High School Umpire, you have criticized Gorman for being out of position on 2 calls, and for his strike zone, then conclude he is having a "horrible series?"
ReplyDeleteAs for being out of position, assuming you are correct, s--t happens. As for his strike zone, what does his chart say? Just how "terrible" was Gorman's zone? 95, 96 percent or so?
Curt-I agree with HSU Last Night Accoring to the K-zone on Fox Sports counted at least 15 pitches out of the zone called many on strike 3 for both teams.I thought MLB UMPS quit calling strikes 5 inches off the plate.I think Hurdle got him rattled. Friday and Today If his hip is so bad and he can't get in position maybe he needs to retire and stick to his day job.
ReplyDeleteUh, I think umpiring is Gorman's day job.
ReplyDeleteGorman's zone from Yesterday. Not great but not terrible either. I wouldn't categorize it as awful by any stretch of the imagination.
ReplyDeleteHigh School Ump, where do you want him lined up on the play at third Today. Her did miss it but it was a close call and I believe he was straightlined. The call on Friday may have been incorrect it may not have, but to call it blatantly incorrect is just ridiculous. It was a bang bang call and he was in correct position to make the call. Remember, he is coming from 1B to make the call, even if you do want him on the third base extended, which I don't, he doesn't have nearly enough time to get there as he is coming from first base.
http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/cache/zoneplot.php-pitchSel=all&game=gid_2012_08_04_pitmlb_cinmlb_1&sp_type=1&s_type=7.gif
I take back what I said about Gorman being not great. I am counting only about 9-12 missed pitches which is right at league avwerage. His chart for the Cardinals-Brewers game with the Berkman ejection was much worse than this one. I also don't understand all the criticism of his performance. The man has not missed the Playoffs since 2005, only Cederstrom(2002),Davis(1997),Culbreth(2005) and Barrett(2004) have longer streaks. He also didn't have an ejection for 2 seasons before the Lance Berkman one. He is one of the most respected Umpires in the game. I think he knows what he is doing.
ReplyDeleteWere there warnings issued before the game today? I ask because I haven't heard of any elections from this game for the pirates retaliating with a beaning of their own
ReplyDelete@wwjd: A Pirate batter was hit late in the game and there were no ejections, so they must not have issued warnings.
ReplyDeletethx BAPACOP that's interesting though
ReplyDeleteRuss 8/5 6:02 Not enough time to get from 1st to home longest play in baseball inside the park homerun and you say he can't get there. MLB Umpires need to get there or maybe they need to be sent down to AAA if they can't get their calls right.Players get sent down all the time when they can't do their jobs.I don't think Gorman had a good series terrible may have been too harsh but a Major League Umpire should do a Major League Job.Hurdle got in his Head and it really showed.Enough Said!!
ReplyDelete@HSU: Two missed calls, one of which was incredibly close, does not constitute being unable to do his job.
ReplyDelete