HP Umpire Rob Drake ejected Phillies Manager Charlie Manuel for arguing a ball (no swing) call in the bottom of the 1st inning of the Phillies-Nationals game. With one out and one on, Nationals batter Bryce Harper attempted to check his swing on a 3-1 pitch from Phillies pitcher Kyle Kendrick. With Joe West not umpiring (illness, cold) and a runner on first, no umpire was at third base and the check-swing appeal went to Umpire Andy Fletcher, who was positioned at second base. Replays indicate Harper did not attempt to strike the pitch, the call was correct. The call is now incorrect.^ At the time of the ejection, the contest was tied, 0-0. The Nationals ultimately won the contest, 4-3, in 11 innings.
This is Rob Drake (30)'s first ejection of 2012.
Rob Drake now has -2 points in the UEFL (0 Previous + 2 MLB + -4 Incorrect Call = -2).
(Interim) Crew Chief Sam Holbrook now has 0 points in the Crew Division (0 Previous + 0 Incorrect Call = 0).
*Crew Chief Joe West did not work this game due to a bad cold.
^Afer review, the Appeals Board has reversed the Original QOC ("Correct" ==> "Incorrect").
UEFL Standings Update
This is the 20th ejection of 2012.
This is the 13th Manager ejection of 2012.
This is Charlie Manuel's first ejection of 2012. He has now been ejected 47 times in his career, 46 times as a Manager and once as a player. Manuel was ejected three times in 2011.
Wrap: Phillies at Nationals 5/04/12
Video: Bryce Harper attempts a check swing and catcher Carlos Ruiz appeals to a nonexistent 3B Umpire
Related Video: Absence of Fourth Umpire (Joe West) Impacts Phillies-Nationals Game
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47 comments :
The 3-man crew just missed two calls in a row against the Phil's. Drake missed a fair/foul over the bag from home, and Fletcher missed a whacker at third as Victorino tried to steal two pitches later. He had to make the call from C position. Tough night for these guys. Those are always tough plays.
This was not something worth getting tossed over...
It does not appear to be close to an attempt from the initial angle.
Manuel knows this crew is down a CC and must have wanted an early shower.
Being down a man ended up costing the Phillies the game.
I'm not happy to write this, but this call was incorrect. The Phillies' telecast showed the replay from the 3B side and and Harper offered at this pitch. (If the MLB.com clip had run for another minute, you could see it)
I have sam Holbrook but not as a CC. Do I still get 1 point for having him or does he have to be my CC?
The (interim) crew chief's one point for non-incorrect ejections is only applicable for crew division scoring (e.g., for you, only non-incorrect ejections that occur under the purview of Dana DeMuth may gain you crew chief points).
So in other words it would be really stupid to have a non CC as your CC?
Of course it doesn't matter in this case because the call is incorrect and has been challenged.
where do you get that the call was correct? if you watch the replay he did go around. they also made other bad calls today
i watched the nationals' cast on MLB Network and it did not appear to be a swing... I'm anxious to see the philadelphia cast that has a swing.... Three man in MLB can/will almost always lead to problems... It's hard to work 3-man after years and years of 4 man... That being said I thought the crew did an admirable job. These missed calls people are talking about do you have innings or scores when they happened...as I must have missed them switching to other games. Please provide a little background to your complaints as I would be more then happy to explain what happened... but just saying they missed calls and it cost the phillies the game doesn't hold H2O... A little evidence would be appreciated!!
BTW Eddie Rap having a tough day at 1st... in the giants/Brewers game... missing two calls with the giants batting in the bottom of the 6th and the bottom of the 7th. First one Pagan was called out on a call that wasn't very close and then a Giants batter was called safe in the B 7th when he was CLEARLY out. Both were force plays at 1st.. Yikes... Maybe the MLB umpires want replay!!
Actually, this call has not been officially challenged. Merely saying the call was incorrect doesn't automatically challenge the original QOC ruling.
Challenge?
This ruling has been challenged and is under review by the Appeals Board.
I don't see how it makes sense that Emanuel was willing to get thrown out in the first inning for a call like this. There's no way Fletcher can make that call at second and arguing about it is just foolish.
Maybe he was trying to make some kind of statement...
Both aforementioned calls took place in the top of the 7th with Ruiz batting.
I'm just glad to see that Fletcher was on the field. The Yahoo box score only lists two(!) umpires.
I can easily see how Fletcher would make that out call at third from C. And that was not an easy fair/foul call for Drake, especially since it's probably been years since he made one from the plate. Seem to remember Jerry Layne take a lot of crap in a similar situation last year.
Yes, Eddie Rap's calls looked pretty rough. But serious props to him for keeping both managers in the game after, because they both really went after him.
Jon Terry
i'm at a loss why the umpires were out of position on the steal play and the fair foul.... Unless things have changed and nobody told me.. With a runner on 2nd and less then 2 outs the 1st base umpire is inside and 3rd base is on the line... I know that at least 2 of them know 3 man!!
Manuel was going to get thrown out today one way or another. Could have been the check swing, could have been the Ruiz foul ball that wasn't or the Victorino out call when he was really safe trying to steal third base in the 7th inning. There was ample opportunity and I think by game's end, Manuel would have had enough.
Just to be clear, I don't doubt the calls would have been made correctly if they'd been working the usual 4-man system. It's unfortunate that the result of the game was likely altered by having to work 3-man.
For educational purposes, a video has been added to the end of the original post showcasing the Ruiz foul ball & Victorino caught stealing calls. The Ruiz foul ball call was made by HP Umpire Rob Drake and the Victorino CS call was made by 3B Umpire (out of C) Andy Fletcher.
@kickersrule, Correct. No one drafted Sam Holbrook as their crew chief.
http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv123/hbk314/7989a71f.gif
If anybody was curious.
@tmac
I agree with you. Now I don't do a lot of 3 man, but the last time I was taught, 1st base ump should be in the infield with a runner on second. Maybe MLB has different rotations/positioning for the 3 man crew?
But given their positions, both were tough calls to make.
"With one out and one on, PHILLIES batter Bryce Harper attempted to check his swing on a 3-1 pitch from Phillies pitcher Kyle Kendrick." - did not know Harper was traded already...
This video from MLB.com seems to make it pretty clear that Harper did swing: http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=21161009&c_id=mlb
You'll have to excuse the broadcasting as it gets progressively worse and worse.
The "quick fuse" comment was the only comment I'd take issue with. The steal of third wasn't really even a close play, relatively speaking.
"We're 3000 ft in the air and we can see these!!!" OR maybe you're just rooting for your a little too hard?? The throw beat Victorino to the bag by a light year, yes the tag was sloppy but it occurred on the back side of the bag. That's a really tough one from the middle.
In a 3 man crew the only way the 3B ump is in the infield is if there is a runner on 1B only. Any other way is wrong. Those guys probably havent done 3 man in so long they probably forgot to rotate after the runner made it to 2B.
A light year? Really? Victorino was on the base by the time he brought his glove down to make a tag.
[im]http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv123/hbk314/7989a71f.gif[/im]
Lot of incorrect comments about 3-man positioning above. According to the CCA Mechanics Manual (which governs NCAA mechanics, among others), U3 (Fletcher) is inside (1) whenever there is a man on 1st and (2) with 2 outs, regardless of where the runners are (unless there is just a man on 3rd). In this game, with Ruiz on 2nd and only 1 out, Fletcher should not have been in the C position; Holbrook should have been in the B position.
The MLB Manual may have different mechanics for 3-man, but I'd be surprised.
Victorino was tagged on his left knee *after* his right foot had touched the bag. Not saying that could have been seen from inside -- it *looked* like an out from that angle.
He had two feet on the base when he was tagged.
Joe West must be pretty sick, DJ Reyburn was brought in to fill in today in Washington.
3 man mechanics do state that with less than 2 out and a runner on 2nd base then the first base umpire is in the infield. However a "advanced mechanic" keeps the first base umpire at first for the backend of a possible double play. This is all situational depending on game situation etc. but, with a runner on 3rd with less than 2 outs the 3rd base umpire should always be at 3rd for the back pick and pickoff attempts. Think of it this way, what is the closer call (usually) on a double play, the play at second or the play at first? You have a better angle from the a position on the double play than what you do from the infield which is where you would be making the call from if the 1st base umpire were in the infield. Also the steal play of third is usually a bit easier to call from the middle of the infield than the pickoff to first or backpick to first. just because you can get a better angle on that play from the infield at 3rd than you can at first. That being said, officially, Fletcher should have been at 3rd and holbrook should have been in the middle. Once again, which would you rather have the better angle on, the potential inning ending back end of the double play or the steal of third?
There was no possible DP. There was simple a runner on 2nd. No reason for Holbrook not to be in B.
@ anon 1:59 How many back end of double plays happen at 1st base with one out and a runner on 2nd.. not sure where you are umpiring but this usualy doesn't happen in professional baseball!!
they were incorrectly aligned!!
I finally got to see the plays that didn't involve an ejection. Drake did the best he could with the smash down the line. He gets a step at best and a best guess on the call and I've been there, done that so many times in 25 years that I've lost count. I had a college ejection over one of these about 4 years ago and like I told the assignor -- I got the best look I could.
Looks like U3 got a late start on the steal of third and paid for it. For my money, the toughest call in the game is that steal of third from C. I always try to move more to the 45 foot mark between third and the plate -- looks like U3 got a good look at asses and elbows.
The check swing -- as others have said, I'm not sure why U1 is still at first base if they had U2 only in that situation. Guess they just don't work enough 3-man.
The check swing positioning is curious, though.
One more thing -- notice that U3 didn't take a quick peek over his shoulder at R2 when the pitcher started his delivery. He was flat-footed and it probably cost him a better look at the play.
According to the PBUC manual (and I cant imagine that MLB would use anything different than PBUC for the rare 3-man situation) U3 is inside in these situations:
R1 Only, R1-R2, R1-R3, Bases loaded, and any runners-on situation besides R3 only with 2 outs.
So like it or not, they were out of position for both the fair/foul and the steal play.
After review, the original Quality of Correctness of "Correct" has been reversed in a 4-0 decision by the UEFL Appeals Board. Four Appeals Board members elected to Overturn the original QOC and zero voted to Confirm or Uphold the original QOC. Ejector Classification has been affirmed in a 4-0 decision by the UEFL Appeals Board.
In this decision, the Appeals Board considered two factors:
(1) Ejector Classification (UEFL Rule 6-2-c)
(2) Quality of Correctness (UEFL Rule 6-2-b)
(1)
The Board unanimously confirmed the HP Umpire as the calling umpire. Though Rule 6-2-c carries an Approved Ruling which states, "the call of the appellate umpire ... shall be deemed the primary call." In its decision, the Board rejected the concept of blanket approval and referenced the 3B Umpire did not rule on the live-ball appeal from his usual position, as in a four-man crew. Instead, the Board surmised that a 3B Umpire, who for the purposes of a play is positioned as a 2B Umpire on the same side of the field as the batter, shall not be to considered to have primary calling responsibility. This ruling sets a limited precedence for future Original classifications, but no Board shall be bound by this limited ruling on appeal.
Jeremy wrote the unanimous decision: "In a 3 man game, on the inside, especially on the batter's side, you can't consider Fletcher the calling umpire. He just doesn't have the look."*
*Non-QOC decisions are unanimous if all votes that are not abstentions are either Confirm or Defer.
Confirmed: Jeremy, tmac, Albertaumpire, BillMueller
Ejector Classification has been confirmed, 4-0.
(2)
As for QOC, the Board determined the batter attempted to strike the pitch and issued the following per curiam opinion: "The Phillies feed conclusively shows this was a swing and someone's got to own it." Because the Board's ruling in Part 1 of this bifurcated decision placed the HP Umpire as the calling umpire, the HP Umpire receives full, calling incorrect points, as specified by Rule 4-2-b-3.
Confirmed: None
Upheld: None
Overturned: Jeremy, tmac, Albertaumpire, BillMueller
Deferred: None
Abstained: Gil (Posted original QOC of "Incorrect"), RichMSN (owns Drake), yawetag (Vacation)
Quality of Correctness has been overturned, 4-0.
When Phillies broadcaster Chris Wheeler made his "3,000 feet in the air and we can see these!" comment after the missed call on Victorino at 3B, he accidentally learned one of the most crucial keys to umpiring: angle is so much more important than distance! And Fletcher's angle on that play, frankly, stunk. R2's trying to steal 2B and you're not starting to develop an angle until after F2's already caught the ball? Good luck.
I wonder what preparation the MLB guys have for 3-man. Yes, it's true that we don't see many regular season big league games start with just 3 guys, but we see several games each year that start with 4 and finish with 3 when someone goes down with injury. Like the emergency evacuation procedures on a ship or an airplane, do MLB crews ever go over 3-man mechanics just in case they're suddenly needed?
On a humorous note:
"The world's tallest structure is the 829.84 m (2,723 ft) tall Burj Khalifa in Dubai, United Arab Emirates. The building gained the official title of "Tallest Building in the World" at its opening on January 4, 2010. It is taller than any other man-made structure ever built." --Wikipedia
National's Park clocks in at 130ft, slightly taller than Yankee Stadium, and roughly 78% the height of Niagra Falls.
However, they may seat the announcers that far away to keep them out of everyone's hair ;)
Before I'm accused of sour grapes, I am one of the ones who said "someone has to own this call."
And yet, it seems patently unfair to pin this on the plate umpire. Anyone who's worked a plate knows how hard it is to track the pitch and get something that's *this* marginal. I know that *I* would've said, "Ball, no he didn't go" on this one, too.
Fletcher gave what he could on this. I know the NCAA would've gone to the line umpire at first before going to Fletcher (new mechanic this year). Still, hitting Drake with a -3 really, really hurts (I'm speaking now as a participant and not an appeals board member) because I think he did everything right here and can't be expected to see this offer by the batter.
I love how the commentators say that Charlie is angry about a call from second. The call was the same as at home, so nothing changed, so what's he angry about? Surely he's not blaming Drake for being a man down. And no chance that Manuel actually knows three-man mechanics. Stupid commentators.
All of which makes me wonder what Manuel was really on about. What did he expect?
We always work U3 in C with two outs and runner on second/third. The most obvious call will be at first. This maybe a local "adjustment" to 3 man CCA mechanics. It is a matter of playing the odds and most of the time the play will be at first so we get U2 in the best spot possible for that play.
For once this site admitted Manuel was right. About time.
Manuel was right? He was? Yes, I guess it is about time.
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