This is Bill Welke (52)'s first ejection of 2012.
Bill Welke now has -2 points in the UEFL (0 Previous + 2 MLB + -4 Incorrect Call = -2).
Crew Chief Tim Tschida now has 0 points in the Crew Division (0 Previous + 0 Incorrect Call = 0).
*After review, the Appeals Board has confirmed Quality of Correctness (5-0) ("Incorrect" ==> "Incorrect")
*The Appeals Board's historical decisions may be consulted via the UEFL Portal
nwsquid is awarded two points for the prop prediction for date of first non-HP ejection
This is the 11th ejection of 2012.
This is the 7th Manager ejection of 2012.
This is Mike Matheny's first career ejection as a manager.
This is the first non-plate umpire ejection of the year.
Video: Welke calls Campana safe, ejects Matheny
Related Video: In the 1st, Conroy rules DeJesus safe
Related Video: In the 1st, Conroy rules DeJesus safe
34 comments :
I'm normally defending the umpires in here, but the blues really hurt this game for the Cardinals. Full disclosure, I'm a cards fan. Really tough breaks on the play at home, and the one here leading to Mathemy's first ej as a manager. I wonder-did he ever get tossed as a player?
From the naked eye, think Bill Welke got this one wrong.
Lance Barrett tossed Bud Black for arguing balls and strikes in San Diego, tonight, too. That's an early two this year for Lance.
Couldn't justify either of the calls (Conroy @ plate, Welke @ 2nd). That said, Conroy showed good restraint in not tossing Molina for his aggressive outburst, and Welke gave Matheny plenty of time to state his case before giving him the heave. I think both calls were missed (and I'm not a Cards fan).
Only Matheny ejection I can remember (as a player) was when he and Dave Duncan got tossed by Jerry Crawford like 10 years ago. LaRussa was NOT amused.
according to retrosheet.org, matheny was ejected once in 1996 and again as a player in 2003.
One thing, what did the Blues have anything to do with those calls?!! Second, those umpires need to get their eyes checked because they were looking the other way on both of those. Or at least it seemed like it. Don't take it out on the cards just because the Blues are still in the playoffs and the Blackhawks are crying at home.
I believe me meant umpires when he said blues
Big Cardinal fan here..
Play at the plate I think they missed. The runner never touched the plate.
Play at second I have my doubts on. I completely see the argument that Greene was making and what Matheny came out to argue, but the video left me with some doubt as to whether Greene had the ball when he applied the tag.
I liked Matheny's comments on the post-game show.. "The first run was a shame and the last run was a shame. Those are my thoughts" and move on...
greene had the ball, he wouldn't have argued if he didn't
After looking at the first run another 5 times from two angles slo-mo, I'm recusing myself from this one and giving Conroy credit for an extremely tough call, and he could be right.. My guess is as good as his. The tag and the touch are both lightning fast and a hairs width either way.
And I wouldn't reference a hockey team here on a baseball forum... :)
Oops, two missed calls. It happens.
Nate, look at that play at the plate again. You want to tell the rest of us when the runner touched home plate? Because it looks like it only happened after the umpire had already called him safe..
@mnhopper1s Yes, it looks from the side angle that the "close" touch of the plate actually missed. In on-field lingo, "he never got there". I still haven't seen a definitive angle on the tag, but I'm going to say that Yaddi was really sure he got the tag on him. I think he got a bad angle on this one. The whole thing would have been seen better from a step to the right from 3rd baseline extended. But this was a very complicated play to judge positioning. You normally want a 90 degree angle on a swipe tag, which seemed like what was developing and would put him right where he was. As it turns out, it didn't happen that way. Tough break for Chris Conroy.
It would be nice if Molina didn't go apeshit every time a call didn't go his way. At least he didn't bump and spit on Conroy. Well, he didn't have time since Matheny came out.
I'm not enthralled with Conroy's position. He'd have been much better served elsewhere.
Welke didn't see the bunt hit the knee during the squeeze play in the Tigers game and now this. Absolutely disgraceful.
Challenge the QOC. I believe the call was correct as Greene did not have secure possession of the baseball at the time of the tag.
Challenge the QOC. I believe the call was correct as Greene did not have secure possession of the baseball at the time of the tag.
DeJesus did not touch the plate, but Molina also did not tag him. After being called safe, DeJesus made sure to touch home on his way back to the dugout as Molina was already arguing. Technically he was safe because of this, but had Conroy not made a signal he may have gone to tag DeJesus instead of complaining.
Agree with Anonymous 7:07 don't believe that Molina got a tag on DeJesus either, not really sure what Conroy should do at that point, does he just stand there and do nothing?? Think Welke kicked it, but he let Matheny have his say and you can see Welke give several opportunities for Matheny to end the argument and it's not until Matheny says something along the lines of "I'm tired of this bs" that Welke hooks him. Good ejection but a blown call.
Another frivolous challenge. The UEFL might be wise to implement a minimum standard for challenges. Perhaps a requirement that the challenger be a public member, or that the challenge must need a second by a public member. Just a suggestion.
You don't have two obviously blown calls in the same game against the same team on key plays by accident. These umpires had an agenda. The Cubs were going to win this game no matter what.
@anon 7:00
That was Bill's brother, Tim, that missed the call in the tigers/rangers game
@ Anon 7:57a The umpires had an agenda? A minor league call-up and a well-regarded veteran finally got their chance to screw the Cardinals and get the bottom-feeding Cubs a win? The stars aligned just right so that they made their move last night (instead of all the other times Welke's worked the Cubs or Cardinals)?
Yes, clearly your point is valid. It's statistically WAY more likely that these guys are unethical cheaters than that two calls got missed in one game. Good grief. That sounds like a child's argument: "THEY DID IT ON PURPOSE, MOM!"
Calls are going to be missed. In this case, 2 were missed in the same game in favor of the same team. As Mike Matheny said, it's a shame. (Not a conspiracy).
@ Adam 7:17a: the correct mechanic, in the case you describe, where Molina misses a tag and DeJesus misses the plate, is exactly as you suggest. To stand still. However, Conroy indicated (by pointing to the plate after the "safe" mechanic") that he believed DeJesus touched the plate. At that point, the play was over. If he hadn't, then DeJesus could have touched the plate OR Molina could have tagged him out. However, the "safe" signal ends the play.
Also, I concur with your assessment of Welke's call. He clearly missed it, but he gave Matheny plenty of ranting until it became clear that Matheny wasn't going to leave (probably because of both calls). Bad call, good ejection.
@ Anon 7:00 "Welke didn't see the bunt hit the knee during the squeeze play in the Tigers game and now this. Absolutely disgraceful."
So now umpire hatred has degenerated into criticizing Bill Welke for his brother's missed call? Absolutely disgraceful.
@Anon 7:57 No, the umps did NOT have an agenda. People make mistakes (like blasting one ump for another umps call). Deal with it. What is this, the Hawk Harrelson show?
I don't think the tag is clear cut enough for the challenge to be considered frivolous.
Yeah, I would not have challenged it without watching the video several times, frame by frame. In real time, it looks like he kicked it it, but when slowing it down, it looks to me that he struggled to hang on to the ball during the tag and may not have had clear possession which would justify the safe call regardless of the signal he made after the mechanic. Not just going to challenge because we can.
I agree with Brett. It's a call that could have gone either way I think..
That said, I knew as soon as Matheny went out that he was going to get tossed. At that point, I didn't even know about the first play at home. But the way Molina reacted and it being a catcher's play I knew Matheny would stand up for Molina in this case.
RichMSN, Molina does not goes nuts very often. When he does, he has a valid argument. He is well-respected in baseball so he gets by with things that other plays may not. He's earned it.
The play is too close to go crazy over. Perhaps he should let his manager do the arguing like he's supposed to. And no doubt he completely lost it and bumped an umpire in the recent past.
Ok positioning is a factor on Both calls... Conroy got sucked into the play too close poor angle misread how the play was going to break down... Hardly a sin.. Hopefully with more experience and a little less pressure he will get better.. Kudos for selling the hell out of the call... He got it wrong but at least he did it emphatically.
Been a rough start to the season for the Welke boys... Watch this real time if you have any ruling other then out.. DO NOT READ ANY FURTHER!!
Someday MILB and MLB when they discuss getting calls right will move the umpire back to the 3rd base side in this spot... It can be very hard to clear the ball get in position and see all of the things you need to see to get the call right.. That is the only explanation to how a call this wide open is missed... As for the umpire apologists out there (if you kept reading) when you start calling guys safe because the ball moved a tiny bit in the glove after a tag.. best of luck to in your future endeavors as being a professional umpire is not for you!!
This is not a "could have gone either way" call... It goes as out... every day of the week... We are not reinventing the wheel here!!
I agree with tmac when he says:
"when you start calling guys safe because the ball moved a tiny bit in the glove after a tag.. best of luck to in your future endeavors as being a professional umpire is not for you!!"
It's in the glove, the tag was applied. It's an out in a HS game, a college game, a professional game.
After review, the original Quality of Correctness of "Incorrect" has been confirmed in a 5-0 decision by the UEFL Appeals Board. Five Appeals Board members elected to Confirm the original QOC and zero voted to Overturn the original QOC.
During review, the Appeals Board considered whether the play should have resulted in an out. Specifically, the Board considered the issues of voluntary release, momentum completion and firm & secure possession.
The first two criteria were deemed easily satisfied, leaving the latter of firm & secure possession, of which tmac wrote for the majority, "Control is not lost hence we have a catch tag: Three facets gained and an out. Therefore the call was missed and I am confirming said ruling."
Confirmed: Gil, tmac, Albertaumpire, RichMSN, yawetag
Upheld: None
Overturned: None
Deferred: None
Abstained: Jeremy (Posted original QOC of "Incorrect"), BillMueller (Vacation)
Quality of Correctness has been confirmed, 5-0.
Oh yeah...players are always that honest too. Give me a break....
How do you miss that call? That was retarded
I think Billy needs to go back to little leauge, but that wouldn't be fair to the kids. He was a piss poor umpire back then too.
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