Again, this is rumor, speculation, and at this time, completely unsubstantiated. So why even bring it up? If you were watching the Mariners television feed during the bottom of the third inning of tonight's Rangers-Mariners contest (Rangers 5, Mariners 0), you might have heard Mariners broadcasters Dave Sims and Mike Blowers react to a fan's sign that read, Give us Garlic Fries to Chase Away Umpires. This was Sims & Blowers' cue to talk about recent umpiring trends, as they decided to give an example using Joe West and Angel Hernandez, who, tonight, were in Minnesota (Twins 8, Royals 4) and Toronto (Blue Jays 16, Yankees 7), respectively:
Sims: I understand Major League Baseball broke up one umpiring crew, Joe West and Angel Hernandez, that crew was split up.The Anaheim ejection is a reference to Ejections: Sam Holbrook (1), in which Wedge was ejected arguing a check swing (no swing) call in the bottom of the 3rd inning of July 9's Mariners-Angels game (Angels 9, Mariners 3). As many UEFL'ers have pointed out over the years, leaving a dugout to argue a check swing, like other ball/strike arguments, is grounds for immediate ejection.
Blowers: Joe Torre, taking down a lot of notes, and watching and decided to switch things up, too many people getting ejected in their games is what I understand.
Sims: Right you are.
Blowers: Interesting.
Sims: Like to keep the players on the field. And if you're going to run anybody, in terms of managers going out there to defend their players and take the hit if necessary, but people are coming to see the ballplayers, not managers and umpires getting into it.
Blowers: I think one of the things we've seen over the last few years is managers don't even have the chance to get out of the dugout.
Sims: Well, we saw that the other day when Wedge got run.
Blowers: Yeah, he was run before he even left the dugout.
Sims: He had his hands up on the strike him out, throw him out the other day in Anaheim.
Blowers: ...The fuse is getting short.
Still, as we discussed in Umpire Odds & Ends: All-Star & July Ejections just yesterday, the broadcasting staple of second guessing an umpire, much less umpiring in general, is alive and well. At least for now, speculation as it relates to West/Hernandez remains in the rumor mill. As far as ejections go, Joe West is currently tied for 3rd place with Bob Davidson (5 ejections), while Angel Hernandez is tied for 5th place with Andy Fletcher, Marty Foster, Jim Joyce, Alfonso Marquez, Angel Campos, and Vic Carapazza (4 ejections each).
I happened to notice that they were split up tonight. I wonder if this is true.
ReplyDeleteMY FAVORITE CREW!!!!! what a sad day!!!
ReplyDeleteI think there are a few winners and losers if this is true.
ReplyDeleteWinners: Jim Leyland, MLB Operations (having this put out of their misery)
Losers: Gerry Davis, Sam Holbrook
Both have been together for a few years now on the Davis crew, and when Davis left, Holbrook would fill in as CC. To split those two up didn't make a lot of sense to me. And where did Chad Fairchild go? It was West, Holbrook, Campos and Conroy in the box. MLB decided to make a change, but blew the change they made, in my opinion.
West, Holbrook, Campos and Tumpane, not Conroy my bad on the previous post.
ReplyDeleteSo MLB split up Joe West and Angel Hernandez into two umpire crews, or at least that's what it sounds like for now. MLB obviously won't be confirming this rumor any time soon, but I think actions speak louder than words. Still hard to believe Joe Torre broke up Angel Hernandez and Joe West. How can those two get broken up??? This is CB Bucknor leaving all over again.
ReplyDeleteseems like a good switch- put angel with one of the most even-tempered umpires in gerry, hope he can be a solid #2 guy and eventual CC.
ReplyDeleteMLB might have done this to save Angel's job. He has not had a good season with multiple questionable calls and antics. Remember that, in 1999, a young Hernandez was one of the NL umpires retained by Major League Baseball despite consistently being ranked among the Senior Circuit's worst. Hernandez has, undeservedly at times, worked LDS, LCS, WS, and all star games in the time since, but still hasn't matured into a premier umpire. Couple this with Joe West being an absolute idiot at times this year and you had a recipe for disaster
ReplyDeleteChad Fairchild is sitting in for Crew Chief Tim Welke in Tampa tonight. Since the other three on the crew (Reynolds, DiMuro, Fletcher) are all listed with the same time of service, I wonder who's chief tonight?
ReplyDeleteSo, I did a little more looking around.
ReplyDeleteLance Barrett worked in Bill Miller's spot last night, while Bill Miller worked for the injured Lance Barksdale. Interesting how they temporarily move MLB guys into injured spots like that, especially when there are two AAA call-ups with Joe West right now.
Also, John Tumpane (who worked for Jim Joyce last week) is in Chad Fairchild's spot, while Fairchild turned up tonight in Tim Welke's spot.
D.J. Reyburn is in for Paul Nauert, a spot filled by Vic Carapazza for a while before the break.
Alan Porter, who had been in for Lance Barksdale for a while, is over filling for Paul Emmel tonight.
Still two series that haven't started yet this week.
To add on, Manny Gonzalez is in for Wally Bell. This had been Blaser's spot for awhile when Hirshbeck was out.
ReplyDeleteBlaser is in for Brian O'Nora in Colorado.
Chris Conroy is in for Jerry Layne in Baltimore.
I'm sure mlb knows in officiating perception is key. joe & angel might be just fine on their own, but with the public perception being that the combination makes for increased tension and hostility, i think mlb is smart enough to put them apart for a little while, even if it has nothing to do with their actual performance.
ReplyDelete@ Jon Terry..
ReplyDeleteI'm guessing Reynolds would be the acting Crew Chief. I say that because, in recent videos I've seen of Tim Welke's ejections that have involved lengthy discussions, Reynolds has come in to break them up.
Ron Washington took the extraordinary step a couple of weeks ago of saying publicly after an ejection that Angel Hernandez was just plain "bad." Wash may've been trying to fire up team, but never heard him make a statement like that about any ump, even after he'd been ejected.
ReplyDeleteIf you allow coaches/managers to argue step balks, these games will never end. You can't complain about the length of games and at the same time look the other way when the manager comes out to argue for five minutes.
ReplyDeleteFights do not count in my book as individual ejection's for umpire totals although they do count here.
ReplyDeleteFor Mr. West, he is taking the hits for the younger guys in his crew and protect them whether or not anyone thinks they need protecting or not. During his early years in the 70's and 80's, the senior umpires looked out for the new umpires when the players and managers tried to pick on them.
West has one of his ejections early due to a ball/strike argument with Schrieber to help out Schrieber and now 2 more with Leyland to help out Campos.
There was also an ejection when West went for help after he had already made the correct call the first time, and he overturned his call due to a partner's response. It was later that West said he misinterpreted the response. Yes he was tagged on a swipe tag but the umpire who helped thought Joe said he got to the base before the tag anyway.
If Joe had not asked for help, he would have got the call right to start with, even if he saw no tag. Of course he would have probably had to eject the other manager on this anyway rather than the one he did.
So, in another way, Joe would only have the foul tip ejection at this point which is not a lot of ejections.
When Joe Torre decided to not further punish Boston manager Terry Francona earlier this year after he and Cowboy got into a little "shoving match" followed by Francona throwing his gum at Hernandez, it's safe to say the writing was on the wall about what he thinks of this crew.
ReplyDeleteWill this be the end of the line for Joe?? maybe his publicist and him should have a talk in the offseason and make a smart decision about retiring before this gets way out of hand... I think if he stays around, Joe and Angel should be split up for the rest of either one of there tenures in MLB
ReplyDeleteAnd so now, the managers cower in the dugout on check swings and try and do all the things in the dugout they used to do when they came out in the old days before the rule about it being automatic if you leave the dugout. They want to give cheap-shots and flap their hands all around to show their disapproval from the dugout and claim that you aren't allowed to eject them from the dugout, like it is off limits to the umpires. If you think the ump missed a check swing, have some guts and go ahead and leave the dugout and go argue and get thrown out. Otherwise, just manage which is your job in the first place, not umpire. Quit trying to hide and use the dugouts as your cheap-shot hideaway. Show some guts and go argue and get ejected.
ReplyDeleteGentlemen, MLB nor Torre is breaking up this crew for those reasons. Everyone can say what you want about both West and Angel, but truth is their supposed "questionable reputations" has nothing to do with it. Every year, especially this time..crews get a little mixed up. This year, more than ever, crews are getting shuffled because so many veterans are injured. Having experienced guys like Joe and Angel on the same crew is a waste. They need to filter them out with all the AAA fill-ins that are up right now. NEVER listen to the media, announcers etc....they are clueless.
ReplyDelete@anonymous 9:01pm-
ReplyDeleteFinely a voice of reason!
I think it's a good pick-up here with this post that the Mariners announcers said as much. And as the original post indicates and Anonymous 901pm reminds us, this appears to be completely speculation and a rumor that probably isn't true. I just think the media likes to assume things based on one thing they see and that's it. At least now I know why the Seattle broadcast crew wasn't included in the "Best Broadcaster" poll.
ReplyDeleteAngel did a respectable job when he was on Randy Marsh's crew. As for the Michael's incident in Chicago, it was Marsh who went to the dugout to call security to throw the bum out. I think under the guidance of a better leader Angel will do OK.
ReplyDelete