HP Umpire DJ Reyburn ejected Cubs Manager Dale Sveum for arguing a safe call in the bottom of the 7th inning of the Cubs-Cardinals game. With one on and two out, Cardinals batter Pete Kozma hit a 0-2 fastball
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| Sveum disputes Reyburn's ruling. |
from Cubs pitcher Travis Wood on the ground to third baseman Luis Valbuena, who threw towards first base in an attempt to retire Kozma. The throw in the dirt was blocked by Cubs first baseman Anthony Rizzo, who then threw above catcher Welington Castillo's head and off of the backstop, where Castillo fielded the carom and threw to pitcher Wood, covering home, as Cardinals baserunner R3 Yadier Molina attempted to score. Replays indicate Wood's glove tagged Molina's upper thigh prior to Molina's left foot contacting the corner of home plate, the call was incorrect. At the time of the ejection, the Cardinals were leading, 3-0. The Cardinals ultimately won the contest, 5-2.
This is DJ Reyburn (70)'s second ejection of 2013.
DJ Reyburn now has 3 points in the UEFL (5 Previous + 3 AAA - 1 Penalty + -4 Incorrect Call = -2).
Crew Chief Fieldin Culbreth now has 1 point in the UEFL's Crew Division (1 Previous + 0 Incorrect Call = 1).
This is the 80th ejection of 2013.
This is the 35th Manager ejection of 2013.
This is the Cubs' 3rd ejection of 2013, 2nd in the NL Central (PIT 6;
CHC 3; MIL, STL 2; CIN 0).
This is Dale Sveum's 3rd ejection of 2013 and first since
June 1 (Joe West; QOC = N).
This is DJ Reyburn's first ejection since
May 14 (Bob Melvin; QOC = Y).
Wrap:
Chicago Cubs vs. St. Louis Cardinals, 6/17/13
Video:
Incredibly sloppy play by Cubs capitalized by Molina slide into home plate, safe call and run (STL)
Split Screen Image
77 comments :
yikes here for dj.
he had an idea he might of kicked it. That why he let Sveum have a long leash even after Sveum started pointing.
Lesson here: never give up on a play. No reason to be at 1BX here
Always hate those high tags. By the time your eyes move from the tag back to the plate the runner is touching it.
A brutally bad defensive play results in a very close play at the plate. It took several replays to see that he should have been out. I'm not sure that the umpire's the problem here.
Yes, clearly lousy defense obviates the need for good umpiring. Once the defense screws up, the umpire can call whatever he likes; accuracy is optional. Excellent point, to be sure.
Except that's not what hbk314 said. What he said was that the umpire should never have even been involved since the defense of an MLB-level team should not be this sloppy. This is not in any way an argument that "accuracy is optional", it is merely making the quite correct point that the Cubs screwed that one up royally.
Horrible positioning and still moving while making the call didn't help. I have thought for a while Reyburn's career battery light has been blinking. This didn't help.
"I'm not sure that the umpire's the problem here."
I think the umpire is the problem here, so long as we're talking about the incorrect call. If we're talking about the Cubs' perennially awful defense (and club in general), then I won't blame DJ Reyburn for that, unless he showed up in a goat-suit.
But since this post (and site, ostensibly) is about the call, quite clearly, the umpire is the problem. He missed the call.
And whether he "should" have been involved is irrelevant. We don't put umpires on the field and say, "get the calls right as long as the teams do what they're supposed to do." We just want them to get the calls right. He didn't, and that's the problem.
I'm not defending the Cubs' defense at all. This is bat-crap lunacy. I just take issue with the idea that the umpire isn't the problem.
I think we're talking about the whole situation, and in terms of why the entire thing happened the way it did, the defense is much higher on the scale of importance than the umpire. I believe that's what hbk314 was trying to say.
If we are looking at just the call, then obviously the umpire is the problem since the umpire is the only one making the call.
Reyburn gave him a long leash, he probably thought "ya I might have blown that I'll stand here and take it for a while, if he cools down " After he tossed him he handled it well by just walking away. Good job by Welke to get in between them and walk Sveum off the field. And did it without touching the other coach, I really hate that some umpire put their hands on a coach to get them off the field. If a coach touches an umpire he's getting suspended.
same, ball beats him but they tag them on the shin, then you look like an idiot by making the correct call because the fielder doesn't know how to apply a tag.
I thought he did an excellent job here. He cant get in position on time because of where the throw is coming from, but calling that "horrible positioning" is, in my opinion, completely wrong. From the back side of that play, third base extended if you will, what are you gonna see other than the fielder's back and maybe the foot coming through and touching the plate? From back there you HAVE to be guessing when and if a tag was made. Ideally, he wouldn't be moving, but he cant react as quickly as he would probably like to since the throw is coming from the backstop. If DJ Reyburn doesn't ever get a contract, it sure as hell wont have anything to do with this play.
"This is Elvis Andrus' 3rd ejection of 2013 and first since June 1 (Joe West; QOC = N)."
Pretty sure that wasn't Elvis Andrus
Here's how I'm seeing it (and I should say up front that I'm not an umpire, and my opinion is probably worth what you've paid for it).
It looks like his original positioning was good _if_ the throw from first had been good. Because of the overthrow, the play essentially opens up "backwards" from the way it normally does, and so his position was then wrong. He tried to get into the correct position, but was moving when he had to make the call--there just wasn't enough time to recognize what was going to happen, establish a new position, and make the call.
I think this is one of those situations where yes, the umpire missed the call, but the miss was caused (I think) because through no fault of his own, he had to try and quickly change his position, and it couldn't be done in the amount of time available.
Which brings up a theoretical question for the folks who actually do umpire: Leaving out the details of this specific call, is it generally better on a play like this to be in your original set position, even if it's not "right", or is it better to try and get as close to correct as you can, knowing you've got to make the call on the move? (Or, is this a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation?)
Generally speaking, you're screwed either way. Stay where you are and the catcher screens you from seeing the tag, move so you can see the tag and you won't have time to get set.
For all you non-umpires, trust me, his positioning had nothing to do with why this call was missed. Please speak up with a better position he could have taken so we can discuss other dead giveaways you've never umpired, or at least not well. 1st base line extended is also exactly what PBUC wants for that play. But oh well, think what you want....
Help me out. At this moment the foot is in (despite the block) but the tag hasn't hit left thigh...unless I am truly in need of the eye appointment I have scheduled for today.
Let me clarify what I am seeing. This is the moment R3 foot seems to be on the plate which seems to be just before his lead leg's knee breaks. In the next angle the tag is clearly applied just after the knee starts to break.
Don't think that Timmy....I believe that is Cubby.
Do I think he blew the call at home? Yes. The video appears to me as if he should have been out. And I'm guessing there wouldn't have been argument from the Cardinals if that call had been made. Even Molina seemed a little surprised at the safe call.
But I think (apparently) the 2nd base umpire blew it even more on this play. According to ESPN he called time out when the pitcher started arguing. He neglected to remember there were other base runners out there and the ball is still live. You can't just stop play!
Bastard play...he did the best he could with horseshit defense. You move to where your instincts take you. I'm not totally convinced he got it wrong.
So where does he go? 3X he's looking up his hind end. His only other possibility was wrap around reverse 1X...and that's if he had time. As I said in an earlier post...it was bang bang and it was ALL caused by horseshit defense. Most "blown" calls are caused by players not doing what they are supposed to do.
I don't particularly care for DJ (pompous attitude in general) but this is a tough call because in normal time, it does look like he may have gotten the leg in (especially with the high tag). 5+ years ago, this is a no brainer out call (ball beat the runner, etc) but the technology has changed the way the game is officiated now a days. Monday morning quarterback says that while PBUC would like us 1BLX for this play, perhaps sacrificing a little bit of angle (just getting to point of plate) and being SET for the tag play may have been a better option. Of course, easy for me to say sitting on my lazy boy with a bag of chips in my lap.
Point of Plate??? I understand the H.S. defense and the players' mistakes caused this whole mess... unfortunately, we can't base our decisions on who screws up any more. BOTTOM LINE: they want the calls CORRECT regardless of who's fault it is.
Next year I think I'm going to draft all AAA umpires. If only it wasn't for the negative points on wrong call ejections.
Either way, the play at the plate was close, and reminds me of the Jerry Meals (I think?) call a couple years ago (2011?) against the Pirates. What upsets me most about this, is that this is the play that started pulling the wheels off Wood's ride.....Pitchers' duel turned ugly for Wood (but not Miller), and this umpiring error did not help. But shit happens. If this ONE play did the Cubs in, then Cubs fans need to stop whining. However, I can see why Sveum is upset - this was the 4th run instead of a badly needed out that could have "stopped the bleeding". But at any rate, this play was closer than it looks. Throw beat him there, but look at the tag.
From our angles I think it is almost impossible to tell. Too close.
You know, that is a much more comforting answer than how many people made it sound like it was a slam dunk missed call.
I disagree. I am not so sure he missed the call. If you can definitively tell based on the angles we're getting, then you must eat carrots by the fucking baerrelfull! LOL
On an unrelated note, with two double-headers today, I wonder if we'll see any new call-ups
These announcers were not that bad. I wonder how the cubs announcers were on this play because the espn guys were horrible saying the play was not that close and they couldn't believe he got the call wrong. I'm still not really convinced he did get the call wrong.
Depends. If he looked around, saw nobody moving, and then called time out, it's good because you don't want the ball being thrown around while at least one of the umpires is absorbed in an argument.
In my book, if you have to slow the play down to the rate of molasses and then after looking at several different angles, the call was pretty close.
Point of plate isn't any better
here is the video with the cubs broadcasters (Len Kasper and Jim Deshaies)
http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?content_id=28116551&c_id=mlb
Sveum is upset with how the season has gone in general. His team is not nearly as poor as the record indicates (sloppiness of this play aside) and they just can't get a break either in their performance or from the umpires. Remember, just a couple of weeks ago Toby Basner kicked a pair before the second inning was over that lead to Joe West running him.
Having said all that, my lowly association reminds us we're out there to call strikes and outs, get them when you can! As mentioned below, the ESPN broadcast team, especially Rick Sutcliffe was a bit over the top in the criticism of the call. Innings later he was even lamenting that the call cost Travis Wood a "quality start".
Wow, I'm amazed how many former minor league umpires come on here just to try to kick a little dirt on DJ.... I liked this site so much more when we analyzed the PLAY and didn't show hate towards the umpire's personality. This site is great for umpires to handle positioning and situations.... Truth be told if you put a well liked umpire on this call say Gerry Davis people would be commending him on how he made such a tough call. If you tell me you think he missed it fine, but show me the evidence. The evidence is it was a nutcutter call. I read below a poster wrote, "if he had called him out the Cardinals wouldn't have argued." That is NOT how good umpires umpire. They don't say.. well I see him safe but let me call him out cause the other team won't complain.
When I watched the video from both feeds I have no conclusive evidence the call was a miss or correct. Even that still shot below doesn't prove anything. The situation was well handled by DJ... Tried to keep the manager in the game. Cubby attempted to protect the young umpire and Keep Svuem in the game, but Sveum wasn't going to cooperate. Personal opinions aside that any of you might have, this was very well handled.
david rackley and lance barrett it seems
Ah, Wood gave up 3 runs before that. HE was outpitched by Miller.
Be careful what you say about what you umpire. There are a couple of real douche bags who seem to like to throw it in your face if you're not doing collegiate or amateur-pro levels. (I dealt with some jackass like that on another discussion yesterday.)
That being said, most of us come to this forum to discuss things and NOT act like a officious, pedantic wanna-be pundit.
My association reminds us similarly, and I agree with you!
This was a very close call, and I don't think it matters who the coach was. He was going to get ejected in that situation (pivotal run, call did not go his way, team performing sub-par). That's life. As for your other comments about "dissing DJ"...
There are three types of people on this forum:
1) Disgruntled minor league "professionals" (who like to toot their own horn and remind others that being relegated to non-professional games means we are apparently not as studly as them, and have smaller penises)....If you say an umpire got a call wrong, watch out! They will lambaste you for assaulting a "brother" and then tell you that your mother has sex with three-pronged, piano-shaped dildos.
2) Disgruntled non-umpires who simply come here to bash umpiring in general - if you defend an umpire, look out! This means there is collusion at the same seeing-eye-dog school we've all obviously patronized.
3) Umpires at a myriad of levels who like to discuss case plays and other things with the handful of people who aren't (to quote Swift) "pernicious, odious ... little vermin".
I'd say 80% of us fall under #3, with 15% falling under #1 and 5% falling under #2.
Except here it is not unequivocally safe or out from the angles we get. I am not sure how we can praise him for making a great call or denigrate him for making a poor call. This was damn close, and we're human. But hey, as Zackass, Velvet Douche, and some others pointed out to me yesterday on another thread, I only do "low-level" games, so what the hell do I know?!
We get to magnify the results on a television screen, and even then it is not clear. To me, I am not sure how one can criticize the officiating here. This was a VERY close call and could have gone either way. If Rizzo could throw better, this would not be a problem. =)
I'm with you.
He certainly did not "kick it". Again, if you can tell clearly that the runner is out, you're eaten carrots by the fucking barrelfull and have better eyes than me!
The CHC broadcast team seemed to be the most even keeled of all of them. ESPN was adamant it was a blown call, the STL broadcast seemed to feel they were helped by a bad call ("somehow, he's safe"), and the CHC broadcast surprising appeared to give more benefit of the doubt than the others. If you just looked at a transcript of the commentary, you'd probably think the ESPN broadcast was the Cubs broadcast and the Cubs broadcast the national broadcast.
It seems like the worst color commentators are ex-pitchers. Coincidence? Oh, and Rick, good thing this game didn't happen in San Diego because with your little on-air fiasco there, they won't let you within a mile of the press box at Petco.
I challenge. Umpire intuition -- tag's on the thigh, leg goes up, you never NOT see it not touch home plate.
T-Mac, you can't have it both ways. I said the exact same thing that you said on the Hirschbeck thread when he ejected Harper, and you patently told me that because he was a major league umpire, he could do whatever he wanted. Make up your mind, friend.
It doesn't really matter. I doubt anyone has DJ Reyburn on there fantasy roster. Are you even in the league?
Not having to do with this ejection, but ESPN has posted a 10 question True/False MLB rules quiz here: http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/quiz/_/id/4979/do-know-mlb-rules#top . It's interesting to note that there are some players and coaches/managers that know what the hell is going on, but the media bombed it horribly: http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9390184/doug-glanville-baseball-rules-quiz-results. I only wish Rick Sutcliffe would have taken this quiz.
Yes. -- and because he's my second primary, that's why.
Then why are you posting as anon?
Because I don't want to be ridiculed.
What I'm saying is it seems the umpire is the only one who thought he was safe. I've read that Molina said after the game he was out. I think the Cardinals were just surprised is all.. As a team you're gonna take those calls because you won't always get the close one. Umpires are going to miss calls like that occasionally. Such is life..
That ejection is a different story, I don;t think Hirschbeck handled that well at all. To be honest, I think if that was ANYONE other than Hype...er, Harper, the ejection might not have occurred.
Let's see who does this to PUIG the first chance he gets...
Specious reasoning, IMO. All umpiring experience gives you in this case is experience with a similar situation. However, it does not remove from anyone else's credibility.
That was badly phrased. I should have said, "If we are looking at just the call, then obviously the umpire is the sole contributing factor." Which is a bit of a strict way of looking at it, but if I try to point out that things like the awful tag have an effect on the umpire's ability to make the call simply because of human limitations, I'll get accused by some of "making excuses" or being "an apologist".
I can't tell either. The angle that the broadcasters seem to think is definitive is so low and straight-lined that it's hard to tell when the foot is on the plate. Since in this situation I can't tell whether the call was right or wrong, I am deferring to the posted QOC as I assume there was something there that convinced them.
uhhhhh Bob/presto bob (if that isn't you I apologize but it's the only bob I responded to in that ejection).. Please do not make stuff up that I did not say.... you just made that up out of thin air..... this is the quote "unfortunately that is not how things work. AAA call-ups can not behave the same as a 3,000 game vet."\
We are talking apples and concrete here!!
I'm sorry you seem to disagree with me no matter what I say on every ejection.
You need to go back and look at the video again. That didn't happen. (well, the grin happened.) The rest of it did not.
Ah, like I have said repeatedly, the very term "umpire apologist" is inane and, well, quaint. I hate it. It reminds me of Bobby Knight trying to explain what a "game face" is. -) You are correct about one thing, it was (not a terrible, but also) not a great tag. And the initial throw was awful!
Hey everyone, I think you guys here might find this interesting. http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9389802/how-well-do-know-baseball-rules-take-our-quiz
ESPN made up a 10 question quiz of the kind of question you would find on umpire exams and gave them to a bunch of players/coaches/media and asked them to answer it. Players average score. Players 5.5/10, coaches/managers 6.6/10, Media 4.4/10. And the fans..... a whopping 3.7/10
Point of plate gets him hit in the back of the head with the throw.
Lol at anyone who can conclusively say he was out or safe. That's a Wacker.
Also lol to you who think he was in bad position.
I thought it was pretty easy.. Glad I haven't forgotten any rules!!
Part of me says it's too close to call, and part of me says he's safe. You look at how close the play was to begin with, plus the fact that the tag is high and he's got his leg stuck WAY out when he slides in....at worst, it's inconclusive. I'm a Cubs fan and even I thought he was safe.
Just a tough call, tough spot to be put in by bad defense. Nothing textbook about this, but DJ's training obviously kicked in as he tried to change positions to get a better look. I think DJ was moving when he made the call. If you are still moving, you lose certain reference points and don't get as good of a "snapshot" for your brain to process and receive all of the important information. This is a good lesson for us to get stationary before we make a tough call. I think DJ should get a point or two back for incredible effort!
1st off PBUC has nothing to do with this.. He is a Fill-in which is all MLB Superviors...and PBUC does not want 1BLX any more.
Infatuation is an ugly character trait.
For the record, I agree with you on this play. I'm not convinced this would be overturned if we had the holy grail known as replay.
You only got something "thrown in your face" because you're okay with players screaming at umpires from the dugout. Other than not having the balls to take care of business in the dugout, you're a great umpire for all I know.
TMac -- We're not, at all. I summarized my thought in the Hirschbeck ejection well: if that was Reyburn who ejected Harper, we would have blasted Reyburn for his attitude. But, because it's Hirschbeck, and he's umpired 3,000 games, he gets a free pass.
Reyburn blew this call. He's out by a freaking landslide. And the only reason why Reyburn is being criticized as heavily is because he's known for his attitude. If this was, say, John Hirschbeck missing this call, we'd be giving him a free pass.
Zac, shut up. You are a high school teacher, umpiring in a high school association and occasionally in "college" ball with some schools that are so small they can't qualify for NCAA membership. You pop off like you are Doug freaking Harvey, when you are nothing more than an inexperienced argumentative douchebag poser.
This isn't my fight, except that I read the comments and find DD4D's commentary to be thoughtful and interesting, even when I disagree. The comments are more enjoyable to read without being bogged down by the silly ramblings of a failed junior high baseball coach.
Oh look, the resident troll/Earl Weaver wannabe is back. You didn't have to make up a new name this season (DD4D).
I'll take your last imagined insult as a compliment.
None of you slapdicks have ever told me what I am wrong about. Just hissy fits and name calling. Keep trying.
He wasn't out by a landslide. It was a very, VERY close play.
DD4D was here last season. They're not the same person.
While someone's level of experience might make them slightly more qualified to comment on particular matters (those unfamiliar with umpiring mechanics usually shouldn't attempt to critique positioning, for example) no person's comments are inherently unnecessary simply because of the experience level of the person posting it. It is the content and the method with which that content is presented that matters.
After one round of voting, the Board has deferred decision. A second round of voting has begun.
Every single angle has him out. Take a look at the screenshots. Every single one has him out.
I didn't say he wasn't out, I said it was not as close a play as you are making it sound like.
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