HP Umpire Mark Wegner ejected Chicago White Sox pitcher Jose Quintana for throwing at Tampa Bay Rays right fielder Ben Zobrist and White Sox Manager Robin Ventura for Unsportsmanlike Conduct-NEC in the bottom of the 4th inning of the White Sox-Rays game.
With two out and none on, Rays batter Ben Zobrist
took a 0-0 fastball inside, behind his legs for a called ball. Wegner immediately ejected Quintana for the inside pitch, the call was irrecusable.* After Ventura made a pitching change, he was ejected by Wegner for arguing the Quintana ejection, the call was irrecusable.* At
the time of the ejections, the White Sox were leading, 3-1. The White Sox ultimately won the contest, 4-3.
These are Mark Wegner (47)'s first and second ejections of 2012.
Mark Wegner now has 4 points in the UEFL (0 Previous + 2*[2 MLB + 0
Irrecusable Call] = 4).*
Crew Chief Mike Winters now has 3 points in the UEFL's Crew division (1 Previous + 2*[1 Irrecusable Call] = 3).
*These calls are irrecusable under new UEFL Rule 6-2-b(5).
UEFL Standings Update
These are the 53rd and 54th ejections of 2012.
This is the 20th player ejection of 2012.
This is the 29th Manager ejection of 2012.
This is Jose Quintana's first ejection of 2012.
This is Robin Ventura's first ejection of 2012, and first career ejection as a Manager.
Prior to his ejection, Quintana's line was 3.2 IP, 1 H, 1 ER.
This is Mark Wegner's first ejections since August 30, 2011.
Wrap: White Sox at Rays 5/30/12
Video: Quintana throws behind Zobrist, gets ejected by Wegner; Ventura argues and joins Quintana
Video: White Sox broadcaster Ken "Hawk" Harrelson blows a gasket over Wegner's ejection
Video: Extended rant by Hawk Harrelson
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93 comments :
Good old Hawk Harrelson lets Wegner have it... My opinion, worse than the Foster/Alvarez ejection.
Love the high fives in the dugout. Sure looked like it was planned to me.
wow worse then Foster Alverez.. you have NOT been paying attention. AJ did what AJ does... a dangerous slide.. he gets thrown at then a pitch that is about 2 feet inside. Even pitchers with the worst control don't throw that far in.
here's a still of the AJ slide.... http://30fps.mocksession.com/2012/05/29/a-j-pierzynski-trying-to-injure-people-again/
Perhaps Hawk should be sent to the Connecticut School of Broadcsating!!
So an excellent umpire caught the White Sox.... There used to be this song..."it wasn't me" we caught you red handed.. "it wasn't me" we caught you on camera. "it wasn't me" Well White sox.. IT WAS YOU... enjoy your suspension Mr Quintana!
Hawk Harrelson's discussion of the ejection:
"Oh what are you doin??? He threw him out of the ball game??? You've got to be BLEEPIN me?? What in the hell are you doing? What are you doing Wegner??? You've gotta be kiddin me!! That is so bad that is absolutely brutal!! That is unbelievable!! I'll tell ya what, they have got to start making guys be accountable, that is totally absurd. That just tells you... here's an umpire in the American League that knows nothing about the game of baseball."
He continued:
“They have got to do something about this, I got to tell you. They have guys in the league that have no business umpiring. They have no business umpiring because they have no idea what the game of baseball is about. And he is one of them. We have always had problems with this guy right here. I’ll tell you, he ought to be suspended. He ought to be suspended, and if they want to keep him as an umpire, send him back to school and teach him what this game is about. That’s unbelievable. That is absolutely unbelievable.”
After the Break:
“This guy behind the plate, Mark Wegner, has just made one of the worst calls in…I’ve been part of this game in all of part of 7 decades, 53 years, that is one of the worst calls I have ever seen in my whole career. He has no clue what this game is about. Wegner has no clue. He has no clue. None. Zero. We have seen him make not that bad of a call, but we’ve seen him make some terrible calls in the past. And now he throws out Robin. Robin is gone….There’s got to be some place…some place there is accountability. Incompetence like that…That’s sickening…It is an embarrassment to the game of baseball. It is an embarrassment to the profession of umpiring. I guarantee that is an embarrassment to Mike Winters, the crew chief.”
The next inning:
"He has no business being a major league umpire because he does not understand the game...Should this guy be umpiring postseason play? Because he's done it. No way!"
MLB should suspend hawk harrelson for as many games as they suspend quintana. harrelson is an embarrasment to broadcasters.
This guy is brutal. That's at least the second pitch he has called for strike three that is way off the plate. I'll be interested to see his stats at the end of the afternoon...
That is quite the rant from Hawk Harrelson, again. Worse than the Joe West tirade he had over those balk calls against Mark Buerhle a few years ago.
That has to be the last straw for Hawk Harrelson. He must go.
Hawk is horrible. He makes my ears bleed. I'm cool with local guys being a bit of a homer, but he's so out there it's ridiculous.
You've gotta be kiddin me!! That is so bad that is absolutely brutal!! That is unbelievable!! I'll tell ya what, they have got to start making guys be accountable, that is totally absurd. That just tells you... here's a broadcaster in the American League that knows nothing about the game of baseball.
They have got to do something about this, I got to tell you. They have guys in the league that have no business broadcasting. They have no business broadcasting because they have no idea what the game of baseball is about. And he is one of them. We have always had problems with this guy right here. I’ll tell you, he ought to be suspended. He ought to be fired, and if they want to keep him as an broadcaster, send him back to school and teach him what this game is about. That’s unbelievable. That is absolutely unbelievable.
This guy behind the mike, Hawk Harrelson, has just made one of the worst calls in eternity. They've been playing this game over a hundred years, that is the worst call ever. He has no clue what this game is about. Harrelson has no clue. He has no clue. None. Zero. We have seen him make not that bad of a call, but we’ve seen him make some terrible calls in the past. There’s got to be some place…some place there is accountability. Incompetence like that…That’s sickening…It is an embarrassment to the game of baseball. It is an embarrassment to the profession of broadcasting. I guarantee that is an embarrassment to Steve Stone, the color commentator.
He has no business being a major league broadcaster because he does not understand the game...Should this guy be broadcasting another game? No way!"
LOL.. as much as you guys hate him, he has a point. If you're bad, you need to go. MLB needs to be accountable.
The umpire and his decisions factor into the game much more than anything a broadcaster might say..
@ Anon 12:56
Hawk needs to be accountable too. I don't know the circumstances yet, but I'd much rather give the benefit of the doubt to Wegner as opposed to the worst announcer in world history.
Hawk makes Jim Palmer seem tame and that's saying something.
Accountable for the 1st Amendment?
Like I said, what effect on the game and its outcome can an announcer have?
MLB has bigger fish to fry first.
@ Anon 1:09
That does not mean Hawk can say whatever he wants to say.
And besides, a large part of the negative perception of umpires is due to the broadcasting. If the MLB wants the umpire controversies to be less plentiful, cutting down on this kind of amateurish broadcasting would be a good start.
Also, it would be nice if Mr. Harrelson would explain why this was a bad decision.
Here is Wegner's chart:
http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/cache/zoneplot.php-pitchSel=all&game=gid_2012_05_30_chamlb_tbamlb_1&sp_type=1&s_type=7.gif
As an aside, I wonder if perhaps the Luke Scott incident led MLB to give the umpires an edict to be more strict in these situations.
Some youtube content of the pitch while you wait.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yT_c3dPRG8
I wish Hawk Harrelson would go on this site.
As somebody else observed:
“They have got to start making guys be accountable.”
Hawk had better hope they don’t, or he’ll be the first one gone.
Ha! Didn't take long for the YouTube video to get pulled!
The pitch was obviously intentional. I'm just wondering why Wegner didn't decide to go with warnings. That way, each side got its shot in, the slate is wiped clean, and the game can hopefully finish without further incident. (Though Hawk probably would've disliked that approach too.)
If you don't like Hawk then turn down the volume or flip on the radio, as there are other outlets for audio broadcasting you can turn to. Hawk is a fan favorite and for that reason he will retain his position for as long as he wishes, despite his one-sided comments. You are not forced to listen to him, while on the other hand, Umpire Wegner has an immediate affect on the game and is completely accountable for the outcome of the game. As much as you would like to argue, Hawk has no immediate affect on any play.However, if you disagree with Wegner there is little that can be done except for whining and complaints to MLB.
In analysis of the actual play, if Wegner was going to allow the Rays to intentionally bean A.J., he should have issued a warning after the action was taken. A warning to both sides would have signaled that the conflict should have ended there. Instead, the White Sox had watched Beckham and Pierzynski get beaned with no warnings given, leaving the door open for further retaliation. Wegner let the situation spiral out of control when he allowed A.J. to be beaned without an official response of any kind, and for that reason his later immediate ejection was questionable.
Wegner is completely accountable for the outcome of the game? You don't think the players had anything to do with it. And, for the record, the White Sox won.
Also, the fact that Hawk is a fan-favorite does not excuse his behavior, and neither does the fact that I am not forced to listen to him. If Harrelson accused Bud Selig of ruining the sport, would "I'm a fan favorite and you didn't have to listen" be a good defense when he got into trouble? No, I don't think it would be.
Video -- http://deadspin.com/5914346/ken-hawk-harrelson-melts-down-after-white-sox-pitcher-ejected-for-throwing-behind-a-batter
Pitch was definitely intentional, well within Wegner's right under 8.02(d)(1) to eject both Quintana and Ventura.
You do not issue warnings because a couple of guys got hit. AJ spiked the fielder, so he gets plunked. The game policed itself. You do not get a second bite of the apple. I do not believe that the Beckham hit-by-pitch even plays into this situation. No need to issue warnings as both sides knew they were even. Eject and warn on the next instance to keep control of the game. I have no problem with this.
@ Brett
If both sides are even, clean slate, then why is Quintana ejected for throwing behind someone, when he didn't even hit him?
To UmpsRule: Hawk could accuse Bud Selig of being a communist and Selig could do nothing about it as Hawk works for Comcast Sports Net Chicago, not MLB. Fan Favorite.
How is that worse than the alveraz ejection by foster, no one got hit in that game , in this game u expected retaliation, and he through behind zobrist
Listen its not an ejection at all, u give warnings if both teams hit someone , or if there the was a brawl or people getting not the previoud day. Thats fair to both teams. Im a yankee fan i.have to say ejections this year for the yankees have been expreamly low compared to 2010, giradi has been only ejected once and that was by country joe
Wegner is a better umpire than foster, probobly by 15 percent
It was intentional, no question. I think Wegner got a little caught up in the emotion of the game. Probably a more prudent way to handle it would be to issue warnings at that point in an attempt to keep Quintana from getting any additional "free shots" at Zobrist (or anyone else); but the situation probably could have been handled without ejections.
Other than during ejections, I haven't heard much of Hawk. I was watching the first part of this game to try to get the context of the throw. Is it me, or does this guy sound like they had a contest among season-ticket holders and they pulled his name out of a hat somewhere? His whole demeanor, from "he-gone" on strikeouts to "stretch" on fly balls makes me think about that drunk guy three rows back that everybody's hoping can't stay for the whole thing.
I think Hawk is forgetting the spike job AJ Pierzynski put on Ben Zobrist yesterday at second base. Then, AJ gets hit with a pitch high and tight early in today's game. Then Zobrist steps up in the 4th, and the pitch goes right behind him. I think Mark Wegner had this sniffed out and did a good job preventing any more nonsense from happening. Hawk Harrelson is the one with no feel for the game.
Because throwing BEHIND a batter is so blatant. If he hits Zobrist in the butt like he should then Wegner could put warnings in.
Should have been done after Pierzynsky got hit, but white sox had to keep it going. Wagner assumed it was done and that's why he didn't issue warnings. Good call. Similar to a third man in penalty in hockey.....
Warnings are for cases of doubt. There was no doubt here.
MLB video: http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=21891645
Seems like wegner did a decent job here. AJ gets plunked after the bad spiking, and we're all even. Could have been warnings at that point, to let the teams know that they're done. oh well. Just gives hawk (another) opportunity to make himself look like an idiot, but the sox fans love him, so he's not going anywhere soon.
Throwing behind someone is more obvious than hitting them.
@ To MikeFromESPN
Here's what Selig should do: give the White Sox a choice. Fire Harrelson or be fined the league maximum. Also, the MLB could threaten not to renew its contract with CSN Chicago if Harrelson is retained. Being a fan favorite does not excuse this kind of baloney.
MLB should just pull Hawks credentials, senile old man.
We go from Vin Scully expertly calling and defining catchers interference one night to Harrelson going off like an idiot the next. Consistency in umpiring, how bout some consistency in professional broadcasting?
UmpsRule, Here's what the owners should do. Demand Selig fire incompetent umpires. Or fire him.
Joe West, Angel Campos, and others do far worse for the game of baseball than any broadcaster can.
And I couldn't tell you if this broadcaster is any good or not. The only time I've really listened to him is after an ejection. This one and the Joe West fiasco a year or two ago.
Really? Joe West is bad for the game? He may be a hard ass but he is not incompetent. Hawk Harrelson just sounds like he doesn't knowing what he is talking about. Being a homre is one thing, being completely blind of anything the Sox do wrong is another. And in Harrelson's rant, he does not even explain why what Wegner did was so bad, he just babbles on and on saying nothing productive. He also mentions that the Sox have always had problems with Wegner. Going throught the archives I did not see one time Wegner ejected a member of the White Sox.
So the man should be fired because you don't like the words he said? How American of you.
Officiating has sunk to a new low when umpires think a commentator should be fired because he dared to blast an umpire.
@ Curt Crowley
For the record, I am not an umpire. Also, what Hawk did is way more abominable than the average ump-bashing.
@ anon 7:32
I was wondering the same thing. Wagner has not been a full time umpire that long. As far as I know that was probably the first time he ever ejected a white sox player. The famous ej I can remember from wagner is when he was a AAA fill in and Lou Pinella Kicked dirt on him at 3rd base when he was with the cubs. O yeah hawk harrelson is a disgrace to the human race. Hey that rymes haha.
Wegner was full-time MLB when that happened at Wrigley field. Wegner has been in the bigs, MLB or AAA since 1999. He's not the young umpire you think he is.
@ anon 8:26
I know he isnt that young and I wasnt sure if he was AAA or full time when that happened but in the terms of an MLB umpire he actually still is pretty young.
The whole scenario was very straight forward, everything done right and no doubt the right call. The only thing extra-ordinary is the commentary. No idea why anyone would be surprised by the call, maybe you could disagree but anyone who calls an ejection on this play a big mistake is unaware of how baseball is played and the dangers of intentionally throwing at a batter.
Hawk says "we've seen it before with this guy" but historically Wegner has always been a good umpire,and still is.
I'm pretty sure if were Cousins,Wegner,or a first time Triple-A guy,that clown would have said "we've seen it before with this guy"
As for the ejection,it was predictable,and with the high fives it was obviously intentional,and if it is intentional an ejection is warranted.
Maybe i'm wrong,but arn't Warnings usually looked negatively on by managers/teams because it takes the opportunity away,but if no warnings are given,how dare the umpire eject the player? I could be a bigger clown that Hawk,but they can't have it both ways..
@ Will
"the dangers of intentionally throwing at a batter."???
Cobb intentionally threw at A.J. and Wegner didn't have a problem with that.. Din't even warn him actually. In this day and age, how is a pitcher not warned when he intentionally throws at a batter? And the argument cannot be made that Wegner did not know the situation because then he would not have thrown out Quintana later in the game. Simple answer: Mark Wegner wanted to play God for a couple innings there and got confused about what he was doing. You can't say that it's alright for the rays to bean A.J. with no punishment, while the white sox get punished with no warning for returning the favor. Otherwise, MLB is condoning retaliation which Bud Selig has tried to put an end to. Get it right MLB
Quintana has a lame excuse. He said he was preparing to throw a fastball and A.J. signaled for a change up. Really? That leaves little doubt what the intent was. Anytime the ball goes behind the batter it is very questionable and there was ample reason for Wegner to deem it intentional and toss him due to what happened earlier in the game and with the slide by AJP into Zobrist at 2nd last game. I say good job by Wegner!!!
He's been a Major League umpire for 13 years and you think he's still "young?" Maybe that's our problem. We keep umpires WAY too long. Think about that for a minute.. how long does a typical player last in MLB?
And yes Joe West is bad for the game of baseball. He's not a very good umpire and he is too bull-headed to do what's right. You can go back to the White Sox incident with the balks, you can go to where he was throwing Francona around last year, etc. It's time Joe West takes his country music and moves on.
@anon 10:19- I don't see much wrong with what West did to Francona. He was just protecting Angel Hernandez which is what a good CC does. And the balks with the White Sox were clearly correct calls. West is considered one of the best balls and strikes umpires in the league and has terrific rules knowledge. He may be an ass, but I don't see what makes him so bad.
13 years is too long, are you kidding me? Derryl Cousins is in his 32nd year and Joe West is in his 33rd year and both guys seem very capable of doing what they do. The youngest Crew Chief is in his 18th year (Cederstrom), but according to you that is too old. You cannot compare umpiring to playing because they are just not the same. The average players playing span is just not parrallel to an umpires span of time. Bad example.
Whether you like Hawk or hate him (I hate him), I think we should all be able to agree that certain parts of tonight's tantrum were unprofessional. "Are you bleepin me?" That's really ridiculous. MLB shouldn't have to step in. His own company should fine him for statements like that.
This was a solid ejection. Even Mitch Williams, who rails on umpires a lot, said this was a great job by Wegner.
Your showing your bias if you say Joe West is a bad umpire because of his actions during ejections. Any smart baseball person, no matter if they liked Joe or not, would separate his demeanor from his plate work. Joe is easily top 5 plate man in the league. Even Ozzie would agree.
What does it matter how many years Mark has been in the league? I find it funny how much dirt is thrown on umpires after calls. From they are too old or young, or using a previous call to now some how prove the current call incorrect.
@mikefromespn,
I 100% disagree with your ascertion that Mark let this spiral out of contol. You have hindsight information 1st of all. You have had a chance to digest the info and think about the words you want to type. Next you have no knowledge of what Mark knows. He may have had less or more information than you, so his judgement is vastly different.
Lastly you clearly have an axe to grind against umpires. If you have never umpired in a situation like this, then you cannot understand
how difficult it can be. You cannot go back an erase an entire paragraph of your post. You get 3 seconds to decide.
Plus you go out of your way to defend Hawk, yet hold Mark Wegner accountable for a situation any veteran umpire would say was handled correctly.
Sir, I accuse you of being a troll, your comments and your tone have all the signs of person being paid to post. It's abosolute nonsense a person, like you, can believe Hawk has every right to incite people against umpires, and then accuse Mark Wegner of letting this situation spiral out of control, in a situaion where any sane person would say the pitch was intentional.
Harrelson reminds me of the crazy drunk guy sitting about three rows back that criticizes everything with infantile tantrums, the annoying fan that everyone hopes security will take care of.
When I watched the Rays broadcast, it looked like warnings could have sufficed.
When I watched the Sox broadcast, the ejection looked entirely appropriate.
The power of Harrelson-nausea.
MLB trying to put a muzzle on Hawk might seem like a good idea in theory. But in reality, it will just strengthen the widely held belief that the umpires are accountable to no one and are out to get anyone who dares to criticize them. It will make the perception of umpires worse AND it will make Hawk Harrelson a martyr -- something I can't stand to see.
Is it awful of me that I found this absolutely hilarious? I mean, I'm disgusted as the next guy, but something about Harrelson making a complete jackass out of himself and having a toddler temper tantrum on WGN-TV is hilarious.
Man, that is funny. A disgrace to himself and WGN, but funny as all hell. I assume its no coincidence that a google search of 'Hawk Harrelson' pulls up "Heave the Hawk" rather high on the search list. ;)
@ Anon 3:45. he is ejected because both teams had already gotten theirs in, AJ spiked Zobrist, Tampa plunked AJ, the end. Quintana is ejected because he attempted to continue the feud that had been settled. he is a major league pitcher and major league pitchers do not miss a foot inside by accident. This is a clear cut ejection, no need to warn. After this ejection both sides get warnings so as to keep control of the game. Hawk is a joke. Talk about someone who knows nothing about the game. Clear cut and great job by Wegner.
Brett, obviously the umpire had already lost control of the game. If he had control, no ejections would be needed.
And for you talking about umpires who have been around forever, what other sport keeps an official for 40 years? And if you think about it, Joe West has had to have been around for that long, right? Or did MLB just hire him straight up? No time in the minors?
And there is no excuse for him putting his hands on a manager for arguing. Joe West has a poor attitude that is bad for the game.
West has spent 33 years in the MAJOR LEAGUES. That is not including the minor league time he served. I think ejecting Quintana shows that Wegner did have control of the game. He is basically saying "If you pull that BS, you are gone" Good job by Mark here and despite what Hawk says, Mike Winters should be proud not embarrased of his crewmmate.
Anon 6:33, Brett is correct in his assessment of the situation. AJ initiated the incident with his spiking of Zobrist. The Rays responded by hitting AJ. That should have been the end of it. Wegner did a great job of not interfering with how the game is played. He knew that AJ would probably get hit for his slide and let the game police itself. Yeah, he could have issued warnings after AJ got hit, but I'm sure he thought that everything was over and done with. Wegner had complete control of the game, but it was AJ who decided that he wanted to hold a grudge and keep the whole thing going.
Its been a few years since I read it, but take a look at the book Buzz Bissinger did with Tony LaRussa, "Three nights in August." There is one chapter that Tony talks with Buzz about retaliation and throwing at players.
http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/7991478/new-york-yankees-russell-martin-says-had-unusual-run-umpire
what an odd story. I believe it deserves its own post.
Wow, Big Marc just owned MikeFromEspn.
In reality, there is no such thing as an incompetent Major League umpire. No incompetent ump could make it that far. But the commonly used criteria for calling an ump incompetent is:
1. He missed a call.
2. He threw someone out.
3. A broadcaster criticized him.
In other words, probably every umpire has been called incompetent at one time or another. So far, that claim has been wrong probably every single time.
Lastly, why does it matter how long an umpire has had the job? If he is doing it well, how long he has had his job is irrelevant. And Mark Wegner is doing his job just fine, as can be seen in this situation.
Hawk's analysis was obviously incorrect, but to suggest he should be fired or that he sucks as a commentator is rather silly.
Not a sox fan, but Hawk's resume doesn't read like someone who is bad at his job. Five Emmys, 2 IL Sportscaster of the Year, Lifetime Achievement Award, Frick Award finalist, etc.
Some are still sore about Hawk's rant on Joe West. Hawk was right on that one. He never questioned West's skills as an umpire. West has some of the best umpiring skills and ability baseball has ever known. Hawk's comments were directed to West's nasty attitude and insatiable lust for notariety and attention. It is obvious Joe West craves attention, and it shows in his behavior and demeanor. If you don't believe it, just ask Joe's publicist. Hawk's comments on West were both accurate and appropriate.
Hawk is correct for insinuating that Joe West is trying to screw the White Sox?? He is correct for not only questioning but completely insulting West's integrity? I think not. Hawk does deserved to be fired for this outburst, due to comments about the competence of not only Mark Wegner, but other unnamed umpires as well. His remarks are totally unacceptable.
As for being a Frick Award finalist, so what? Tim McCarver won the Frick Award, and he's one of the most criticized broadcasters in the business.
AJ is a jerk. This is not news.
What blows my mind is the absolute unashamed ability MLB has to tolerate act after act from him.
The announcer blew it here; the White Sox are so used to AJ's antics that they always see retaliation against him as the first strike and not the retaliation.
Throwing behind Zobrist was ridiculous and needed to be stopped with the hook. AJ should pay the fine for the pitcher. The announcer should be sentenced to five days broadcasting Cub games.
@6:33, NBA referee Dick Bavetta has been in basketball for 37 years.
Harrelson crossed the line on Wegner, sure, but he's always been the biggest homer and most controversial announcer out there. I was looking at the White Sox schedule and I saw they're visiting Los Angeles in mid-June.
Let's see... Harrelson or Vin Scully... I think I'll be watching the Dodgers feed for that series....
Usually when people talk about umpires like West "Making it about themselves", or "Lust for notariety and attention", they are just mad that a call went against their team. West called something that they don't like, so in their feeble minds, he is just "drawing attention to himself". Of course it's pure B.S.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM3QlGI2EiA
this video is proof that the hawk doesn't know the rules. what a tool.
"That is the ground rule double sign"
New drinking game to go along with the video that @kickersrule posted. Drink each time you hear the words unbelievable or brutal, you must take a shot. You will be hammered by the end of the video. On a more serious note, it seems that Hawk has no idea what an appeal play is as he seems to think that the White Sox could appeal this play. Maybe if he read the rule book he would know the signal for spectator interference and the difference between an appeal play and a protest.
Hawk Harrelson's definition of a brutal call is one that goes against the White Sox.
Agree with Brett... again (same anon as post after Brett on Laz posting). Wegner simply attempted to let the game police itself... at first. It should have been over after A.J. was plunked. Both sides were even. COULD warnings have been issued after that just to make sure everyone knew it should be over? Maybe. But any person on that field should have known that even without warnings. And if that happened then the posts on here would just be about Wegner inserting himself into the game when it wasn't necessary. Without warnings Wegner also has the option of only ejecting the pitcher if someone gets thrown at vs. being bound by rule to eject both pitcher and manager. This ended up happening anyways, but at least it was an option he left himself by doing his best to let the game police itself. Great post once again Brett. I am continually impressed. I'm sure that means a lot to you coming from an anon!
I'm a Cubs' fan who lives in Detroit. I think a good definition of torture is listening to Hawk Harrelson for even 5 minutes. His homerun calls are pretentious and juvenile. But I think despite all the context, he was basically correct here. Wegner should have ruled warnings after AJ got hit -or- he shouldn't have ejected Quintana. It's really that simple. AJ is an ass, Hawk is bush league, the Sox were the idiots in the series . . . All true but Wegner blew the call. He looked guilty actually, and I half think, with as quick as he threw the hook, that he thought he HAD warned both sides.
Anonymous @ 5:07:
Wegner did not blow the call in any way, shape, or form. The rule clearly states that he can eject the pitcher if he judges that he threw at the batter intentionally. He may give warnings if he chooses, but as it has been explained to you "experts" in this thread dozens of times now, he did not feel like he needed to.
Zac: you have been wrong on each of your dozens of replies. Yes the rule allows for it . . . That is not the question, and it shouldn't be surprising that someone as literal minded as you would rely on a reading of possible rulings as somehow definitive. Almost anything is allowable as far as ejections. The question isn't, is it allowable, it is "did he utilize the ruling to best serve the game." no one here is claiming to be an expert, except (ironically) you. This is a place to render opinions, no?
Zac, I am the one who mentioned Lust for notoriety and attention. I am most assuredly not a white sox fan.
If you don't believe Joe West seeks attention and notoriety, then you are a double diamond apologist.
If Joe West doesn't seek attention, then why does he have a publicist? Isnt hiring a publicist the opposite of not seeking attention? If he is not seeking attention, why is his publicist sending out press releases pimping him out for interviews during the season?
I happen to think Joe West is a great umpire. However, one would have to be a fool to think that he is not an attention-seeker.
Curt (I'll just call you 'the 99' from now on, see Wegner post), you have some bass-ackwards thoughts. You act like its obscene to think of Hawk as being a bad broadcaster, which is really an understatement, because of some lifetime awards he's received for talking on the radio? Here's a line for ya:
"Worked two All-Star Games (1987, 2005), five Division Series (1995, 2002, 05, 08-09), seven League Championship Series (1981, 86, 88, 93, 96, 2003-04) and four World Series (1992, 97, 2005, 09)... was the youngest umpire ever to work a NLCS in 1981 at age 28... worked his 4,000 game July 30, 2009... his 88 postseason games rank ninth all-time... his 4,186 regular season games ranks him second among active umpires."
That's a career right there. That's Joe West. The difference is, Joe knows what he's talking about in his line of work and doesn't take any crap. I'm not actually a huge fan of his, but the fact of the matter is he knows what he's talking about because he's been doing it professionally longer than I've been alive. Hawk has ONE year of experience that he has apparently been able to duplicate 52 times. Its not about being pissed because someone is ripping umpires. That happens every day and sometimes the announcer is right and sometimes they are wrong. Hawk just rants when something doesn't go his way with absolutely ZERO facts to back up his arguments OR waits until he's seen the 5th replay in super slow-mo to throw an umpire under the bus. It's the absolute ignorance he displays that gets under people's skin. To change the subject for a moment for an example... he really thinks Joe Brinkman gave a 'ground rule double' signal and then reversed it to end the game!?! All it takes is ONE trip to talk with an umpire and ask what that signal means and then to explain the difference between a ground rule double and spectator interference and SHAZZAM!!! He would be a more informed announcer! ONE EFFING TRIP IN 53 YEARS!
But I digress... when someone steps out of line, Joe runs 'em because that's how the game works and Joe knows it better than anyone out there, managers, players or umpires. This, coincidentally, is exactly the opposite approach Laz took during an interesting situation, and you have a problem with that over on the other message board TOO. Which is why I've labeled you 'the 99,' because like 99% of the baseball public you will have a problem with any way an umpire handles a situation. I have to stop now, I'm getting too heated... Brett, anything to add!?!
Bud Selig talks to Ken Harrelson
http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/7995172/bud-selig-jerry-reinsdorf-talk-hawk-harrelson-rant
Wegner handled this situation exactly right.
The previous game, a dirty player (Pierzynski) made a controversial slide. The next day, he gets hit. Both sides are even and there should be no need to warn as Chicago does not need to take this any further.
However, a dirty pitcher (Quintana) has the unmitigated gall to throw at, of all people, the same player Pierzynski made his questionable slide into the previous day. As if this wasn't obvious enough, the pitch was BEHIND Zobrist. This incident was caused by two dirty White Sox players, not by a very good umpire.
@Anon1:53am,
This thread could end with your post, Well said.
So how many free shots on the White Sox players did the Rays "earn" due to Aj's "dangerous" slide the previous evening? Once Beckham was hit, intentional or not, the Ray's should have backed off any idea of retaliating against AJ. We all know that "innocent" players often pay at the plate for the transgressions of their teammates. Beckham's hit should have ended it right then and there. Unfortunately, it was left to Quintana to send the message to the Rays that it was not "two for one night" on Sox players, given that Wegner failed to do so. As it was, Cobb's later pick off plunk of Da Aza demonstrated it was actually "three for one" that night.
Beckham was hit by an OFFSPEED PITCH. Just THINK for a second.
...and that should have ended the incident, intentional or not. There are no "do overs" or "one more time until we get the right guy." Multiple plunks, intentional or not, always leads to escalating tensions in game. Earlier in the season when Philly's pitcher Cole Hamels hit Nat's rookie Bryce Harper, Nat's pitcher Jordan Zimmerman subsequently hit Hamels at the plate. Home plate ump Andy Fletcher wisely used his powers of warning and ejection to gain control of the situation by issuing a warning to both dugouts, which also avoided any potential impact on the outcome of the game. If Wegner had followed Fletchers more traditional example of warning before ejection, he would have issued a warning after AJ was hit, especially in light of Beckham's plunk. He would have probably gained control of the situation and avoided any criticism that his decisions had the potential to change the game's outcome--the point of the Hawk rant.
Apparently given the situation, the White Sox announcer thinks the game of baseball is about retaliation. The events leading up to this point validate the ejection. If this is a first time thing then no, and ejection is not warranted. However, given the situation, Wegner handled it correctly.
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